Gary (00:00)
So your number one prospecting tip before you even start is to check your assumptions and test. That's why I call my podcast, The Entrepreneur Experiment.
Paul M. Caffrey (00:10)
Welcome to the 50th episode I'm absolutely delighted to be joined by Gary Fox, the host of the Entrepreneur Experiment. Gary, how are doing? How's it going?
Gary (00:19)
Hey Paul, how are ya? Congrats first of all on 50. That is a monster landmark.
Paul M. Caffrey (00:23)
Well, it's a drop in the ocean compared to what you've achieved. Last I looked at you on 364, but I'm to keep going and keep chasing you down. How's your week been?
Gary (00:31)
That's all it is.
The week's been brilliant. Yeah, week's been really, really good. Heading on holidays next week, so really, it's amazing how a deadline focuses the mind. Who'd thought it?
Paul M. Caffrey (00:39)
There you go. Yeah, that's it. Procrastination is now out the window. And that's, folks, my mind on this because this is a quick fire episode of the show. First question, what is your number one prospecting tip?
Gary (00:48)
Check your assumptions. That's my number one prospecting tip. Go back to your assumptions. When I started my previous business, I assumed my target profile was X. I got into the mainstream media, which is by a chance article, and I was completely Y. So your number one prospecting tip before you even start is to check your assumptions and test. That's why I call my podcast, The Entrepreneur Experiment. I've learned over the years, everything is an experiment. Every day is an experiment, and everything in your business should be viewed as an experiment to be tested.
Paul M. Caffrey (01:13)
Really, really like that. You got to learn, you got to iterate, you got to stay relevant. And I guess as you've shared many times on the podcast, what a lot of people start out doing ends up being something different. So again, you might think you can sell to this group of people over here, but maybe it's the others over there. What is your number one sales tip, Gary?
Gary (01:30)
Two things, always be closing, number one, from Glengarry Gain Ross, and then never be selling. It's do the work every single day so you don't have to sell. So I share my journey every month on LinkedIn. I say, this is what we've done this month. I'm a big believer in building in public so that people know my story, they know what I do, they know how I do it, they know me intimately, they listen to maybe hours every week, but also every month they know exactly where I'm tracking.
exactly what I'm doing, exactly who I'm talking to. So for context, I share all my numbers. I share my downloads. I share my video. I share my social. And that allows me to have an incredibly quick sales conversation with someone when we do get down to it. And again, I front load everything so people see everything before they even engage with me. I used to get a lot of kind of like tire kickers like every salesperson does. So now what I did was I stepped forward into that and embraced it. And I have a pre checklist they must fill out before we have a conversation about sponsorship.
And on that checklist is everything you need to know about Work With Me. Also, what do they want? Most important.
Paul M. Caffrey (02:30)
Yeah, I really like that. And I mean, it's amazing to your numbers go from, know, I was I don't know if it was a hundred thousand and a half million downloads over the course of maybe, you know, six, eight months, you know, there or thereabouts. So again, being brave enough to do that in public as well, that is that is the one I think a lot of people haven't taken that leap. And I guess myself included, I am not sharing all that stuff. So maybe it's something for me to start thinking about. This is a question that some people can answer.
And some people have really, really good answers for it. It depends on, I guess, the journey that you've been on. If somebody is looking to get promoted or looking to get ahead, what advice would you give them, Gary?
Gary (03:06)
I definitely have an answer for that because I've thought about it a lot and I've hired a lot of people so I know exactly how I like to be worked with. Two things on that, take an owner's mentality. So don't view the business as an employee, view it as the owner would do. And number two is to solve problems for your manager or your owner. Don't come to them and cough up a problem and say, Paul, so -and -so client, I think he's going to drop off. Shrug the shoulders. If you come to Paul and go,
Well, I think client A is maybe thinking about dropping off. I three different ideas. One, two, three. What do you think? And Paul's going to be like, brilliant. Number one, your gut reaction was right. Number one. So take an owner's mentality from how you work in the business and then take an owner's mentality from managing upwards. Don't look for them to solve your problems. Your entire job is to solve their problems before they even arise.
Paul M. Caffrey (03:56)
I really like that. And that is something that should be inherent. You shouldn't need to be told to do that. And actually, just this week, you know, the first the people of my current insurance with was up for a new I rang them up. I was like, Hey, yeah, I'm not sure I'm thinking about maybe canceling the policy. yeah, that's grand for process that for you now. Yeah, that that last on Sunday. all right. Thank you.
Gary (04:17)
I
was bluffing! I only wanted to negotiate!
Paul M. Caffrey (04:20)
I was just saying like, you
you sent me out to this kind of you bumped up the premium. But yeah, amazing. But that person didn't do what you were talking about. I'm pretty sure that that person is not going to be going places because of not having that mentality you're speaking about. I'm still baffled they did that, by the way. I won't name them.
Gary (04:36)
Incentives is a big
thing. Incentives is huge. How are they incentivized? Obviously not with customer retention and new business. They're obviously not incentivized. They're obviously incentivized to answer the phone and being paid by the hour. That's a huge thing is incentives. So incentives is huge. Incentives will dictate a lot of your outcome and success as a business person and a salesperson.
Paul M. Caffrey (04:47)
close those tickets probably right I can close this ticket right now
Yeah, absolutely. you get so many book recommendations and you I know you're a voracious reader. I am curious what books you recommend people check out to help them sell and to help them in their career, Gary.
Gary (05:09)
Biggest thing is to know themselves. So I generally recommend books that aren't necessarily about selling, but more about understanding your own psychology. Because when you understand your own psychology, you can pretty much understand everyone else around you because most people's lack of self -awareness is what trips them up. It's not the product they're selling. It's not like the environment they're in. It's not the calls. They don't need to more calls. It's more so they need more self -awareness. So the two books I'd read are Psychology and Money by Morgan Housel and Atomic Habits by James Clear.
Those two will give you a fairly well -rounded insight into your own psychology towards money, which is essentially sales, and atomic habits more so towards your own day -to -day psychology of how you think about things. Most things are embedded just in antiquated ideas that are passed down generation to generation, but it's all about breaking that cycle for yourself if you really want to kind of develop.
Paul M. Caffrey (05:54)
Yeah, really, really like that. we'll have links to those books in the show notes for people to check out, although probably half the people listening may have actually read Atomic Habits, for example. But probably the next question is, do you remember and are you actually following anything from it or was it, you know, a good read and you just left it there? And I guess that's one of the things of the year. Is there two or three actions you can take from that book? Maybe it is not. And that's cool. But if you think there is, maybe look to bring them on, bring them on.
When it comes to preparation, and look you mentioned on holidays, I guess you're probably been preparing for that. But what does the work before work look like in your world, Gary?
Gary (06:28)
So I am, we talked about this affair, I am a hard procrastinator. So I try create good pressure for myself. So I will have deadlines for everything. Because when you work for yourself, there's no boss. There is, but he's a lunatic, right? He's all over the place. So you need good pressure. I need good deadlines. So I have deadlines for everything. And the work before the work for me is I'm constantly doing the work. I don't, it's like the adage, I can't remember what football player said it.
I don't get unfit so then I don't have to get fit. I don't let it all slide away because that can be the tendency when you click, the deal is closed, we'll let off the gas. For me, it's all about keeping that consistent pressure throughout the year, good pressure. And the work before the work is I'm constantly preparing. And what that means is people always ask me, how do you select guests and how do you prepare and how do you do all that? I'm constantly reading, constantly learning, constantly looking, constantly engaging.
So it's very rarely that I'm just writing down a list out of the blue of people, I'm just gonna have these people on, just pulling them out of my head. Usually I'm like reading an article going, huh, Paul, okay, I add him to the list. I'll literally have a running list of like a target CRM. I'll add them to the list and I'll pad that out as I go. So it's not like I never wanna get to the situation where as a procrastinator, like before you did exams in college or school, night before, cram. That was always how I did it. And I swore as an adult, I would try and break that cycle.
So now I just chip away, just chip, chip, chip away. And then it's not really, there's never that massive pressure. Then I have a podcast tomorrow, Gary, I must learn everything about him in the next 24 hours. Because what automatically happens, and I've seen this happen so many times, you over prep and then you blow it. Because you've over prepped so much information into your head that you're listening to all these crazy insights and voices you think you should be doing. Whereas if you're just chipping away, you're like,
There are three key things about Paul I need to know. There are the three areas I want to explore.
Paul M. Caffrey (08:22)
Yeah, I really like that. And that shows in the quality of guests that you get, because although, you know, I'm face value, I don't always recognise all the names that you have coming on. And so I saw you've got a few more guests coming up. saw Uno Hagen. was like, I saw I remember speaking on a stage for 10 years ago at this point. But she was keynote and she was incredible. So I know that's going to be an amazing podcast. All the stuff she's done with the with the pharmacies is just incredible.
Gary (08:42)
Mmm. Yep.
Paul M. Caffrey (08:51)
But because the quality of your episodes are so good, I know that, if I don't know these other people, probably should, number one. But number two, I know it's going to be valuable. And again, you're not going to get to that. As you say, if you leave everything last minute, you're definitely not going to get the caliber of people which you bring on. And I like the way you kind of dovetail that into everything else. It was constantly chipping away. And yeah, there is nothing worse than being overprepared. That is for sure. And then, you know, taking things that are going away.
Gary (09:16)
I've seen it happen on the poet
bowl. I've seen people come in so prepped and then they go blank halfway through or they can't get off the script. They can't get off. So anyway, as I was saying about our brand new policy about it and you're like, God, this is not that kind of show. My show is very personal. Thank you for the compliment, by the way. That's the ultimate compliment is that people aren't listening just for the guest. They know they're going to get a standard and a kind of style and a feel and a s
Paul M. Caffrey (09:30)
Yeah.
Gary (09:42)
Style is a big thing. think we talked about this before. Style is an important one for me now that people know it's distinctive. It's not like another podcast because there's tons. So it's very, very important. So thank you for that.
Paul M. Caffrey (09:53)
Yeah. No, look, it's a great, great listen. We're going to go probably super quick fire, do a bit of a step change. What's your favorite film? Laircake. interesting. OK. And who's your favorite sports person?
Gary (10:00)
Layer Cake.
was thinking about this one. It'd be a toss -up and they'd hate each other between Roy Keane and Alex Ferguson.
Paul M. Caffrey (10:10)
Okay, yeah, that'd be that'd be a great podcast having them on either side of you, although you might need a helmet, I guess. And best concert you've ever been to.
Gary (10:18)
I would say it's not a particular one, it'll probably be the early doors of Electric Picnic. The first two, three years of Electric Picnic were pretty special. It was just a special time. So I think the first two or three Electric Picnics would be the ones I remember most.
Paul M. Caffrey (10:30)
Nice,
very, very nice. And finally, what's the best piece of device you think you've ever been given or one that stands out that you think is useful for a lot of people?
Gary (10:39)
Hmm, it is an incredibly tough question because so much of advice is subjective and always people ask me for book recommendations all the time and I'm like, what are you trying to solve? And I always say, what are you trying to solve right now? And then I'll give a book recommendation. The best bit of advice and I get this all the time. So it's not like, it's just profound moment. I always get jealous of people when they have a super polished answer for this, because I'm like, I think that's, I think that's bullshit, but it's go what you got.
Paul M. Caffrey (11:00)
Yeah, they give a nice life experience and then...
Gary (11:06)
It's go what you got. That's the number one bit of life advice I've got from so many entrepreneurs. Not like someone sat me down as a young scamp and temporary and told me this bit of advice. wasn't. It was go what you got. And I've heard that again. I see pattern recognition is what I'm trying to do now as a podcast host. And that's the one thing you hear over and over. Go with your gut.
Paul M. Caffrey (11:24)
Excellent. And this next question we can edit out if you don't want to answer it. I'm to throw it at you anyway. If you were given one million euro and you had one person or one company to invest in, who would it be?
Gary (11:35)
you trickster, you're playing my own question back at me. that is an incredible question. Let me think. There's been so many incredible founders I've had on in the last.
Paul M. Caffrey (11:46)
It's okay,
not my question.
Gary (11:48)
Yeah, that's incredible. Let me record this at the end. Let me answer this at end of the podcast.
Paul M. Caffrey (11:55)
We'll circle back to that. So the podcast is incredible. The entrepreneur experiment. If people want to find out more about the podcast, they want to find out more about you. How can they do that?
Gary (12:04)
I am literally everywhere. You will find me wherever you are. That is my mission as a podcast host. You'll find us on YouTube. You can watch all the episodes on YouTube, Spotify, Apple. If you want to have clips, you can go to Instagram, TikTok, wherever you are, if you put in the entrepreneur experiment symbol.
Paul M. Caffrey (12:18)
Cool. And it will be the top link in the show notes. Gary, thanks so much for coming on.
Gary (12:21)
Thanks, Paul
