Paul M. Caffrey (00:08.974)
Hello, and I am delighted. Can you hear me? Yeah. Yes. OK. Wanted to make sure. OK. As I mentioned, I am delighted to be joined by Larry Levine. Larry is the best -selling author of Selling From the Heart, also co -host of the same podcast with the same name. 30 years selling B2B technology, his company trained CEOs, executives.
private equity and also sales professionals and companies like Humana, Workday to name but a few. And we're also going to get a peek behind the scene conversation about his new book, which is called Selling in a Post -Trust World, Discover the Soft Skills that Yield Hard Dollars. Larry, welcome to the show. Oh, so good to see you, Paul. I've been looking forward to this, by the way, super grateful for.
you having me on and trusting you or trusting me with your, your, uh, your great following you have on your podcast. I appreciate you. No, the pleasure is all mine. I'm delighted that you're here and this is going to be a super fun conversation. So I guess the big question on everyone's minds is, yeah, what's, what's up with the new book? You know, what, what's it about? How will I be able to get it? What insights am I going to take away?
Oh, you know, hey, thanks for asking this. This book was years in the making and, um, and we've known each other for, you know, a little bit now. So I didn't know what to expect Paul with selling from the heart. I really didn't know, cause the book was born out of our podcasts. So our podcasts now we're going on seven years with our podcast and selling from the heart. The book came out in 2018 was picked up by a newer publisher in 2020.
three. So I republished it under their name in August. Yeah, August of 20, 23. And so I had no idea what to expect. But behind the scenes, I was working on book two. In fact, for the last couple years, I had been coaching corporations throughout the United States on the whole philosophy in the second book. So I believed in my heart, I knew I was on to something.
Paul M. Caffrey (02:29.55)
but it was a good couple years in the making. And the reason why I bring this up is I sat down, and this goes back a couple years ago, and you know, Darrell Amy, who's my cohost on the Selling From The Heart podcast, we sat down one day and we said, we both just sat down and said, you know what? What's the core foundation of Selling From The Heart? If somebody reads Selling From The Heart and they implement this, what is it gonna help them do?
Now, I don't care what title you have, whether you're the founder of a company, you're an AE, you're an SDR, you're a BDR, what I'm about ready to drop is gonna apply to all of you. The core foundation of what Selling From the Heart allows you to do is build trust and credibility in a sales world that sorely needs it.
Absolutely. It's so, so important. And trust, it's always kind of been there in the background. Some companies would have it as one of their main core values. Obviously Salesforce comes to mind, they're big on trust. We've had speed of trust, you know, with Coby and all of that great work there. So what I like about that is it's something that's proven and we know that it works. And I think it is something that's needed a little bit more now.
than ever. But if you're an account executive or if you're a founder leading the charge to sell, what are a couple of things you can actually do to bring trust into your world and bring trust to your customers and to your prospects? Great question. And so we'll peel this back. And I really want to expand on this because let's just think about this. And this goes back to that great book by Stephen R. Covey and the Speed of Trust.
He went on to say this, and I'm paraphrasing it, is when there is high levels of trust, things speed up. When there are low levels of trust, things come to a screeching halt. Now, why is that so applicable to us in sales today? Without trust, Paul, you're a salmon. You're a salmon swimming upstream. You're always constantly trying to build trust. So here's what's interesting.
Paul M. Caffrey (04:48.878)
We had a guest on the Selling From the Heart podcast last year and he's done Ted Talks and he speaks about trust. And he said something that was quite profound. And then I'm gonna peel back how y 'all can build trust inside the sales world is this person went on to say this, in a first meeting, think about this for a second. I don't care if this is a first phone call. This is a first face -to -face meeting. This is a first virtual call.
insert name of virtual platform. If you cannot establish trust in the first three minutes of a conversation, this person went on to say, you're constantly trying to establish it. So let's think about this for a moment.
How do y 'all build trust? And what I've done in selling in a post trust world, which is the title of my next book is I've woven in four critical pillars in how y 'all can build trust throughout the whole entire sales process, starting with prospecting, starting with how you weave this throughout the whole selling journey or buyer's journey, and then how you weave this into client management. And it's,
It's simple, but it's going to require you all doing something a little bit different. And that means taking action on it. Because I do know this and Paul, I think you would agree with me is, and I've always, I've always shared this with salespeople. I don't care if they're founders, sales leaders, sales professionals. It doesn't matter. I always say this and you can, it's an either or question. You can viewed as being liked and having a lot of friends.
Or you can be viewed as having trust and credibility. Which one do you want? You can't have both.
Paul M. Caffrey (06:44.11)
There you go. And I think everybody is going to want the ladder, right? Everyone, a hundred percent Paul, everyone's going to want the ladder. But we talk a lot about trust. There's great books written about trust, but what I don't see enough of is how do you weave this into the day in the life of a salesperson? That's easy and actionable. So in selling in a post trust world, I've taken two years in the making of how we're coaching this.
with some very well -known names here in the United States that are actually having success building trust. And the first part of building trust is you have to build authentic relationships.
Now some of you might be going, well, I already do that. Great, more power to you. But there's a key word in there when it comes to building relationships. They must be authentic. And what I mean by authentic is they must be congruent.
and I'll peel that back even more is the walk. The walk must match the talk. And it can't just be all talk. And this is why it's so critical because there's rampant skepticism across the whole world when it comes to salespeople. People's right, the BS meters and the radar screens are at all time high. So people are skeptical. And I've always said this.
The more you know about someone, the more you will grow at someone. The more you learn from someone, the more you will earn from someone. So the first pillar of building trust is you have to build authentic relationships. What do you know about the key decision makers and influencers in your client base or in your targeted account base? What do you know about these people? And here's what's interesting.
Paul M. Caffrey (08:41.134)
is I found that the relational knowledge that most salespeople have with their clients and with their targeted opportunities is that minimal at best. And I'm saying this with the utmost respect to everyone that's out there is it's hard to build trust and it's hard to build credibility when you really don't know that much about the people that you're wanting to work with or your current clients.
What do you know about their goals, their dreams, their visions, their aspirations? What do they want to accomplish the next 90 days, the next six months? How can you help them become better at what they do and help their business become better? That's what I want people to think about. That's the first pillar in building trust. Yeah, it's when people first hear that there is a danger like, you know, people could switch off and be like, yeah, no, I know a build trust. Yeah, no, I know I've got to do that. But.
I think to your point there, if you genuinely ask yourself, how much do you know about the prospects? How much do you know about their goals, the vision, all that stuff that you've articulated, you probably very quickly realize you don't know a whole lot and what's the message going to be? It's going to be a little bit weaker. One of the things which I think is super important is actually caring about their success. So it's...
For me, it's trying to get the point across that it doesn't finish with a deal. It finishes when a customer is getting value from the product or from the solution or the software or whatever you're selling. And then it's on to, yeah, you're going to resign with us because we'll be delivering X, Y, and Z. And it's trying to get that across that you really care for their success. In a prospecting perspective,
How do you advise people to show that they care or how do you advise people to show their authentic selves when, let's face it, you're probably not going to know too much about the individual or maybe not enough about the business. How can you start? How can you stand out just even a little bit more than the rest? Oh, man, this is so good, Paul. And I'm going to answer this with a book that I just finished reading not too long ago.
Paul M. Caffrey (11:03.118)
The book is written by a gentleman by the name of Dr. Henry Cloud. And Dr. Henry Cloud wrote a book that I just devoured. I absolutely wore a highlighter on in this book. And simply put, the book was titled, Trust.
And then he had a very lengthy subtitle. But here's what was interesting. And I'm going to answer it by just giving you a sneak peek into this because it ties so well into what I believe here at Selling From the Heart and with my next book, Selling in a Post -Trust World. Dr. Cloud talks about five essentials in building trust. And the first essential in building trust is understanding. And it ties in exactly...
with what you just said about caring, but here at Selling From the Heart, we call it giving a rip. But in trust by Dr. Henry Cloud, he goes understanding. In other words, do you understand me? Do you see me? Are you listening to me? Do you value me? Do you get what I'm trying to accomplish? You can't do that when you walk into these conversations with an all about me attitude.
You have to walk into these conversations, whether they're virtual, phone, email, Zoom, text, doesn't matter. You have to walk into these conversations with an all about we attitude. I'm here to help because I sincerely care about you. I tell you what, Paul, and everybody who's listening, it oozes out of your pores.
When you walk like that, when you talk like that, people sense it. It's in your tonality, it's in your facial expressions, it's in how you carry yourself, it's in the language that you use in a written first time email. People sense all of this.
Paul M. Caffrey (13:05.422)
And that's why establishing and building trust and building authentic relationships matters. Some of y 'all might be going, Larry, this is going to slow down the process.
I'm going to ask you to think differently. This completely does the complete opposite. When you slow this down, you actually speed things up because finally somebody is going to go, man, that Paul Caffrey guy, he knows me. He gets me. He understands what I want to accomplish. He's seeing me. He values me. I'm a human. I'm not a means to a commission check.
Yeah, I like what you say there, to show people that you see them. And in that first meeting, I mean, there are real examples come to mind of how you can earn trust that you might actually overlook. So one, for example, is actually to show up early, a couple of minutes early to your meeting. Because if you show up a minute or two late, whether it's, maybe it's not your fault, something won't connect.
the level of trust just drops a little bit. And if you're in a meeting and you promise to, we've all been there, right, where there's a question asked and like, oh, yeah, great question. I'll send you on this resource or I'll introduce you to that person or I'll send something on after. And then maybe it's two or three days and it's in the back of my mind, oh, you haven't sent it. Your trust with that prospect or with that customer is diminishing. So if you promise something, actually doing it when you say you're going to do it,
Or if you call out your sales process typically requires X, Y, and Z. And if something, this part can be a bit of a problem, so we like to get other people involved. Well, if you follow that through, your trust will be increased. So there are subtleties to how you manage yourself that you can start applying. From wanting somebody to be successful in their endeavor.
Paul M. Caffrey (15:13.486)
How do you stay on track of focusing on the product or the value or the solution that you're selling and not go too far into their personal journey or their personal career development and taking away from business outcome to building their career? Have you ever found that that's a challenge or do people tend not to get too affected by that? So, oh man, we can go on. We can spend the rest of our time together, Paul, just talking about what you just said.
Here's what I would, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta crawl out of your head on this people. You gotta crawl out of your head and you gotta align your head with your heart. And it can't be all business all the time. You have to gently, and I mean gently, and it's gonna require practice. It's gonna require attentionality. It's gonna require curiosity. And the C word that you used a little bit ago.
a little bit of caring. And you have to blend both business and personal together. You got to weave it in. And this requires practice. And I'm a big believer you can't be 100 % business all the time. You're talking to another human being. You don't know what that person has gone through. But I do know this. The more and people.
We have to establish a baseline of trust immediately. If we go back to Dr. Henry Cloud's book, just for a moment and complete understanding, this is how you can make somebody feel comfortable. Well, they will open up to you. Pay attention to the first couple minutes of how you open up a conversation with someone.
Paul M. Caffrey (17:05.678)
Simple as this, I'll give you an example. I'm meeting you, Paul, for the very first time. This could be virtual, face -to -face, it could even be a phone call.
This is how I would open up our conversation. Paul, I'm super grateful for our time together today. Thank you. You know what? I've been looking forward to our time together since we scheduled this weeks ago. I appreciate you.
And I just silently pause for just a moment.
And what's interesting is most people are listening to this or maybe some people see the video. Even though I know you're going through that, I can't help but crack even half a smile. And I've lent forward my chair a little bit. It does hit you, that piece of gratitude up front. So yeah, it's really nice. I'm telling you, and this is going to require a little bit of practice and some of y 'all are going, man, I don't know if I can pull this off.
But I will tell you this, the stories in your head become the stories of your life. If you tell yourself right now, as you're listening to this, I mean, I can't do this. Guess what?
Paul M. Caffrey (18:28.334)
We already know what's going to happen. You're going to struggle to do this, but if you keep an open mind, it goes back to Dr. Henry Cloud's book, First Pillar, First Essentials Understanding. Can you imagine when you rolled that out in the first 20 seconds, the tone that has just been set? And then I can follow it up with this. And now I'll put part B to this. Paul, I'm super grateful for our time together here this morning.
Thank you. I've been looking forward to this since we calendared this calendar our time together a couple weeks ago. I appreciate you. Hey, by the way, Paul, just curious, what's Paul been up to the last week? What's been lighting your fire? What have you been working on?
and then you just pause. Yeah, the pause is super important. And with that, there's two things that I know a lot of people listening, maybe UK, Irish, European, and are kind of going, oh, that's maybe a bit more America, that's maybe a bit more forward. I don't want to diminish myself in the eyes of the client. So one other thing where you can actually...
you know, pull that round and keep that going is to share with them, you know, we've got, we've got, we're going to be together for the next 30 minutes or for the next, you know, the next hour. How are you fixed? Are you still good for that time? I've got this amount of time, but then I've got another session with another client and what it does, it elevates your status somewhat. So what you're, you're doing two things. You're saying I'm going to be completely present and give my all to this.
But also I've got other things which all we need to attend to, I'm sure you do as well. So it's a way of keeping your status. Cause I know some people might feel that, oh, if I'm doing that, I'm elevating them and maybe decreasing myself. One piece as well that I think also works well is we're all conditioned to take notes and put them into the CRM. Some of us like doing it. Some of us don't like doing it. It doesn't really matter where you fall. We...
Paul M. Caffrey (20:41.454)
We all need to do it, right? What I think goes a little bit beyond, and it really speaks to your point here, Larry, is you should be taking notes on the deal and what's needed to progress, the usual stuff there. But I also recommend if you just take a note personal, what's going on? If you speak about someone's kids or you think about long -term career aspirations or if there's travel or if there's something that they're doing, and then you mention that in the next meeting,
It's kind of shown that, yeah, you've taken a little bit of care and interest in that person. You need to note it down, though. You're probably going to forget. We do so many meetings these days. Yeah, no, 100%. I want, you know, before we move on to some of the other pillars around trust, I want to hit something head on that you had just said. Yeah, because I want to address it is, yeah, you know, Paul, I know you're European. Your listeners are European.
and Larry Levine's here in the United States. And some of y 'all might be going, this is a US based ideology. People, this is global ideology. Here's why. We're all human beings. We are all human beings. People connect in a human way. I've had the opportunity with Selling From the Heart to travel all over the world with Selling From the Heart.
I know there's cultural divides. I know that, you know, the words that I may use may not be the words that you all use. But I am here to tell you this. Regardless of where you're at listening to this right now, without a basis of trust, your deals are going to come to a screeching halt, people.
Paul M. Caffrey (22:33.038)
It doesn't matter if you're in Europe, if you're in Australia, if you're in South America, or if you're in the United States. Or by the way, any other place that I failed to mention. I was like, where else? You all are humans. Humans connect to other humans. We can't forget that. If you want to establish a baseline of trust,
Show that you care. Value the other person. Give a rip about the other person and build those genuine authentic relationships as the next part of this is you must bring in meaningful value.
In other words, you got to bring business smarts to the conversation or else you're going to get viewed as an empty suit, which is the chapter 10 of selling from the heart. So that for me, the two sides of the trust coin is you got to build authentic relationships as a seller and you have to bring meaningful value as a seller. That means you have to bring business goods. You have to bring business substance to the conversation.
You have to bring something that gets that person scratching their head saying, you know what, Larry, you bring up a good point. I've never thought about that before.
Paul M. Caffrey (24:08.846)
or you get them to pause and you see their eyeballs roll in the back of their head or you see them scratch in their face or you see their eyebrows squint because they're thinking.
Sellers, when you deliver the same sets of goods, which are product -centric, service -centric, solution -centric conversation, my promise to you is this, you will never connect to the hearts of your buyers, and they will never open up to you. They will give you what they give everybody else, which is their scripted, canned responses back to you.
Okay, so what I'm taking from that is the aim here is to get the prospect or the customer to sit back and genuinely engage in a piece of dialogue, which I guess is unique to that opportunity, which typically would be out of context in different opportunities because we all have different challenges, we have different visions, different goals. Absolutely.
Paul M. Caffrey (25:19.982)
What, where should you take those when someone says, I haven't really thought about it like that. You know, should we jump on that and should we start going deeper? You know, should we go a different direction? How should we take those conversations when we all of a sudden have unearthed something a little different than we're used to? Perfect. That's a golden opportunity for an amazing conversation. And if somebody says this, you know what, Paul?
You really got me to think on that. I'd never thought about that before. My response would be, in what aspects haven't you thought about that before? Help me understand that.
Paul M. Caffrey (26:05.358)
What hit home? What got you to think about that? What made you scratch your head? Now,
Confident sellers can roll that out. Insecure sellers are going to struggle with this because an insecure seller, they're not going to know what to do with it. They're going to immediately pounce on it as a selling moment. It's a listening moment. It's a curiosity moment. It's an inquisitive moment because if you can ask those, I promise you this, everyone, what comes next is pure gold.
Yeah, you're going places which I guess the other two or three salespeople you're competing against probably aren't, right? They've probably stopped maybe a couple levels below service level pain and you're obviously going that bit further. I guess if we look to develop that a bit further, you know, a lot of sellers, a lot of founder sellers, they're delivering solutions. So it could be like a
demo or solution presentation, and then maybe they move into commercial piece. How do you, you know, what soft skills can be used in those later stage conversations to help speed the deal along and to help build trust at that point? Yeah, it's just simple. Do you understand me? Can you empathize with me? Maybe even can you sympathize with me? Do you get me?
Have you worked with other people just like me who are experiencing some of the same issues and challenges that I have?
Paul M. Caffrey (27:45.966)
Okay. So, and it's to me, and this is, this is what I want people to think about. It's becoming others focused people, your buyers and these key decision makers. I'm here to tell you this. They're a lot smarter than you think they are. They pick up on the words you're using. They pick up on your body language. They pick up on, are you leaning in? Are you leaning back?
They pick up on your tonality.
Paul M. Caffrey (28:19.886)
And the reason why I'm saying this is we have to be hyper critical of all of this because in the back of their mind, this is what's probably playing out and they are never sharing this with you. Sorry, Paul, I'm using your name again because you and I are having this conversation, but that person could be saying in the back of their mind, Paul,
Paul M. Caffrey (28:47.854)
If we decide you're the right fit and I bring you into my company, can I trust that you're going to follow through with all of the things that you've been sharing with me? Can I entrust in you that you're going to help us become better at overcoming these issues, these roadblocks and these challenges? That's the silent thing going on in their head. And it's all based on
how you're caring yourself, how you're listening to them, how you're empathizing with them, the words you use, how you're bringing curiosity and intention to the forefront, how you're peeling back their responses because you've been actively listening to them and you're not feeding them a bunch of canned scripted responses.
It's, I go back to there's a near and dear friend of mine here in the United States. And he's always shared with me this. The problem with most sellers is they walk into conversations with high intention, high attachment.
Paul M. Caffrey (29:59.982)
What they need to be doing is walk into every conversation with high intention, low attachment. Let the conversation and guide the conversation where the conversation goes. The problem is, and I'm going to throw a stake in the ground on this one, sorry folks, is most sellers' sales funnels aren't the greatest.
there's opportunity in areas for improvement sitting in people's sales funnels. So when you all have anemic, low sales funnels with not a lot of opportunities in there, you walk into every conversation with high intention and high attachment. And that's what turns into commission breath.
Paul M. Caffrey (30:50.638)
If you do some of these things on a daily basis, like engaging in conversations, connection, practicing how to have these conversations and feel comfortable and secure in your own skin and walk into all of these conversations with, I'm there to serve Paul and his team. I'm going to walk in with the utmost of intention, but I'm going to detach from the outcome of this conversation.
I'm going to facilitate and guide this conversation to where this conversation goes, because I'm there to serve them. I'm there to help them. I'm there to listen to them. And only when I know enough information, then I'm going to pull in what I need to pull in based on what I know to help them overcome these issues, challenges, and roadblocks. You get where I'm going with this?
Yeah, it's super important. I know a lot of people are maybe obsessed with win rates or getting that positive outcome, whereas it's really how many can I get through the process? If it's a yes or a no, or if it's his next stage or not. But it's that we've got to the point where we've allowed the customer and ourselves to make a confident yes, no decision whether we're a fit for them. We obviously hope we are. We obviously think we will be, but maybe we won't be. And it's again, not being attached to try to force something along that's not real because...
You'll work a lot of those opportunities and they'll just disappear or fall down at the end. And consistent prospecting is an interesting one. I know you've got a whole chapter or a whole section dedicated to that in selling from the heart. If I remember correctly, what is your number one prospecting tip?
Consistency and discipline, Mr. Caffrey, is in, I've written about it in Selling from the Heart. I even peel it back even more in Selling in a Post -Trust World is, unfortunately, most sellers are consistently inconsistent.
Paul M. Caffrey (32:52.302)
My number one tip for prospecting is you have to do it. It's non -negotiable. It's something you do every day. You block and tackle it. It goes on your calendar. There's no pencil eraser to it. There's no delete button to it. So my number one tip for prospecting is it has to be done with consistency, with discipline, and with self -accountability. Right. I think that's so important. You block and tackle crucial.
And I like that. No, there's no reason to take it off the calendar again. And if you do one day, then it's a double session the next. You know, if you're at a conference, maybe something comes along, but yeah, that's super cool. I guess if we move it on then to sales, and obviously that's what we're all trying to do is close more business. What's your number one sales tip, Larry?
I'm going to go back to it all in salespeople are chasing it. Salespeople are chasing shiny objects, silver bullets. Give me the hack. Give me the quick tip. That's going to get me from where I'm at to exceed budget, exceed quota. Here's my simple sales tip. Create self -discipline. Create self -discipline. What do I mean by that?
Do the necessary things. Do the right things right.
And we all know what the right things are. At least I hope you, the hope you do. And if you don't, then I'd question why are you in sales? But I think the number one sales tip is you got to bring discipline to the forefront. That's the difference between average sellers and phenomenal sellers is they have radical and I mean, radical amounts of discipline. They hold themselves accountable.
Paul M. Caffrey (34:42.862)
They're their best sales manager, no one else. They hold themselves disciplined. They know what needs to be done and they do it.
really, really like that. And again, holding yourself to account, there is no, it nearly, although sales is competitive and there's always, you're always going to be other sellers, there's market, this, that, the other. You know, are you actually doing better than you were yesterday, last year, whatever it may be. I mean, you can keep, you can get yourself to these, these great standards. It doesn't necessarily need to be reflective on others.
A lot of, let's say, account executives or sales professionals are in the position where they want to move to the next level. So what's your number one tip for somebody who's aspiring to get promoted? Always be learning. Always be learning. Always ask for help. Always ask for feedback. I'm a big, big, massive proponent that feedback and critique are the breakfast of champions.
If you want to get to that next level, whatever that next level is, however you all define it, it's all internal to ourselves is always be learning, always be asking for help, always be striving to become better. Ask for feedback. What can I do to become better? Find someone that can help you remove the blind spots that you have. And we all have blind spots, Paul. Yeah.
That would be my number one set of tips. I really like that. And I guess when I think about that a bit more, obviously on your first book, Keenan would have endorsed it. He's very, very good at gap selling in this space. You shared Mark Hunter is going to be the power quote on your upcoming book. Who else do you think people should be learning from in this space if they're now thinking, I need to go and get better?
Paul M. Caffrey (36:48.398)
Is there any anybody or anything anyone that comes to mind for that? So here's what's interesting and I really, really, really, really, really times 10 believe this in my heart that if sellers want to get to the next level, however they all want to define the next level, I'm going to drop a bombshell on all of you right now. And Paul.
I hope you view me with the same set of love and care after I say this as before. Sellers must be reading and following leaders. People who write leadership books, people who write professional development books, people who write spiritual books and faith -based books, why am I sharing this with you? Sales is so mentally taxing.
that when we're constantly reading sales book upon sales book upon sales book, all do credit to all the great sales books are out there. We do two things to ourselves. We fail to work on our mindset and our heart set, two things that you need to become a very successful seller. So I'd be following the great leaders that are out there in your market sector, the great professional development people that are in your sector.
the great faith -based and spiritual people that are in your sector. And bring this into the mix because when you're only reading sales -focused books, after a while, you're reading some of the same sets of things that have been repurposed in 10 or 15 other books, all due credit. It's just, I really believe this in my heart. It transformed me as a seller.
And it's transformed the people that I work with when they can bring in these other books to read from all. There's so many great ones that are out there. Um, what ones come to mind if people are thinking, okay, I want to get one to start with what, what sort of titles are I just gave? I just, I will. I alluded to one follow Dr. Henry cloud. Follow Craig Groshell. Follow Eckhart toll. Follow.
Paul M. Caffrey (39:10.99)
Mark Batterson, follow Dr. Anita Phillips, follow Dr. Darius Daniels, read Napoleon Hill books.
really, really like that. And I guess tying things together. Can you remind us of the title of your new book and share how we will be able to get our hands on it? No, I'd love to. And by the way, thank you for having me on. I so appreciate this. We only hit half of what's in the book, but the title of my next book is Selling in a Post -Trust World and it's Discover the Soft Skills that Yield Hard Dollars.
I bring in the four pillars and the four foundations of how you build trust and credibility. You can learn all about the book at sellinginaposttrustworld .com. I'm super excited. The book actually releases August 13th of 2024, but you can get your hands on signed copies and you can get your hands on the book. I call them early readers editions by simply going to sellinginaposttrustworld .com.
Great. Thank you so much for coming on, Larry. It's been a blast. I can't wait to go to that website myself and get registered. I look forward to the next time we speak. No, it's my pleasure. Thanks for having me, Paul. I appreciate you.
