Paul M. Caffrey (00:01.176)
And I'm delighted to be joined by Mark, the sales Hunter. Mark, how are you doing?
Mark Hunter (00:05.87)
I am doing great. Looking forward to this conversation with you.
Paul M. Caffrey (00:09.56)
Yeah, I'm really looking forward to it as well. It's been a while since we spoke. It's been even longer since we hung out together in Lithuania, over a year ago at this point. And there were lots of things we spoke about as we explored Villainous. There are topics that I might touch upon. But for people who maybe aren't familiar with your work, maybe give us a brief overview of Mark Hunter.
Mark Hunter (00:33.134)
Yeah, well, thank you. I am known as the sales Hunter. People ask me, what was your name before you changed? No, I've always had the last name of Hunter. So you got to use it, but Hey, all of my work is really around top of the funnel, top of the funnel, uh, prospecting, because I'll tell you what, when people say we don't have enough to close, no, it's because you didn't spend enough time prospecting. People say, wow, our negotiations just don't going right. We're having a discounted price too much. I say, well, you know what the problem is? You weren't prospecting the right people.
Everything when when we prospect right it's amazing how the rest of the transaction Goes well, so that's the focus of my work and i'll tell you what not only is it the prospecting in terms of the tools But you know, you know, the number one tool is your head your mindset Because if you don't have the right mindset when it comes prospecting it ain't going to happen. Just saying
Paul M. Caffrey (01:22.872)
Yeah, it's the easiest thing to push off and do another day and that day never comes. So from that perspective then, when we think prospecting, how often should we do it and what mindset should we carry into it?
Mark Hunter (01:41.326)
Well, I encourage people to brush their teeth and bathe daily. So I think prospecting should be done daily. I mean, you really do. Here's this, so many salespeople get themselves into problems because they, Oh, I got so much business. They don't prospect. And then they wake up one day and they don't have any business. Well, they don't have any business because they weren't prospecting in good times and bad times. You've got to be prospecting. You've just got to know what your number is in terms of the number of calls you make or emails or whatever it is.
and stick to it every day. It's like working out at the gym. You got to do it daily.
Paul M. Caffrey (02:14.136)
Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more. And we were speaking a little bit more beforehand about your running and your runs that are coming up and you know, half marathon. It's a big distance. If you just go to run that tomorrow, I wouldn't. It doesn't matter who you are. If you've not trained, you will get found out. I'm guessing this is kind of the same thing.
Mark Hunter (02:32.302)
It is the same thing. You know, people always look at, at, at sales as the results and that's great. We all want to put the results, but the results we achieve are a direct reflection of the activities we've done. And this is where so many salespeople go around. This is where organizations go around. This is where founders go, right? Well, I've made all these calls, man. Nothing's happening. Nothing's happening. You know what? It's the activities. I mean, it's, it's, um,
Paul M. Caffrey (02:35.16)
you
Mark Hunter (02:58.766)
Yeah, I do. I do a fair amount of running and I'm doing a half marathon in two weeks. And even though I haven't been doing some running, I got to still condition myself for it. There's activities I got to do. If I just showed up to run the half marathon, I die. Literally I would die at my age. I would die. And you've got to work your way up to that. And this is so key. Sales is a series of activities done continuously day in and day out.
Paul M. Caffrey (03:26.552)
Yeah, and I like it like a series of activities. And as you kind of called out at the start, when negotiations aren't going well, when you're discount and all those things come along, I mean, yeah, sure, it can be a little bit of industry pressures. It can be a little bit of what's going on out there. But it is a lot to do with the fact that your working deals that are probably mediocre at best and probably aren't going to have the impact on on your prospects that better qualified or prospects in greater need could actually have. So.
Mark Hunter (03:28.686)
you
Mark Hunter (03:36.398)
you
Paul M. Caffrey (03:54.552)
Now that makes total sense. So how do I get my, I suppose my head in the right space to do it? How can I have the right mindset to prospect?
Mark Hunter (04:04.622)
Well, that's a great question. And you have to do two things. One, you have to have an unwavering belief that your objective is to help people. If your objective is to achieve quota, that's commission breath. Sorry, you're out of here. You have to have an unwavering belief that you're helping people. You also have to have an unwavering belief that you truly can help them. You truly can help them. You know, what is so interesting is,
I don't believe you have to believe in your product. Oh, if only I had a better product. If only I sold this brand of product versus this brand, I'd be so much better. False. False. That's a false narrative. Why? Because it's the outcome you achieve. And you know who drives the outcome? You do. See, here's what I find. The mindset is about being willing to be patient with the customer and being confident enough and competent enough with the customer.
Paul M. Caffrey (05:02.73)
you
Mark Hunter (05:04.43)
That you can just dig deep with them to understand what are their needs? What are their needs? What are their challenges? What are they facing? And you might say, Oh man, this is just not going anywhere. This is not, you know what? You stay in the game. You stay in the game and it's amazing at how things do come to pass. We have a society, global society that, that wants rewards quickly. You know, we expect that I send out one email, I make one.
phone call and somehow I'm going to have a sale. That's false because the customer, I don't think too much. I don't know about you, Paul, but I didn't have anybody waking up this morning and say, man, I hope Mark Hunter calls me and tries to sell me something. They just doesn't happen. It just doesn't happen. That's where it comes back to the mindset. If I believe I can help someone, I have an obligation to reach out to them. And I do that also by staying focused on.
Paul M. Caffrey (05:48.44)
It's no.
Mark Hunter (06:03.63)
What are the outcomes I've helped customers achieve? I shared this time and time again. Take a piece of paper, draw a line right down the middle, and on the left -hand side, write down the names of 10 customers, 10 of your favorite customers. On the right -hand side, write down not what you sold them, but the outcome they achieved, the outcome they achieved. They were able to do this, they were able to do that, whatever it might be. And you build that list and then you give yourself a big hug and you go, wow.
That's what you're selling. You're selling the outcome. It's not the product. It's the outcome And when you do that and then you look at that list and say who are those people who? What makes those ten and you hone in on that perfect customer? That perfect prospect and you say this is where I spend my time Wow That's where stuff really begins
Paul M. Caffrey (06:39.192)
you
Paul M. Caffrey (06:57.784)
Yeah, I really like that. And I think a lot of people don't actually get to that stage or it doesn't always necessarily have to finish with the business outcome. It can be the impact on the person as well. I remember selling Microsoft cloud technology many years ago, 12, 14 years ago. But at the time, what that actually allowed was that allowed people to work from home at that stage, which meant, you know, if you know, there's a doctor's appointment or something, all things we take for granted now because of the world we're in.
back then was very transformative. And that used to be one of the things that I prided myself on when I was doing prospecting. Cause I was, look, I'd go into this big building and I'd say, you know what, they go ahead with this technology. Some people are going to be able to, you know, stay and work from home a period of time. But if we, I suppose one other thing that I've saw you say this on stage, I'm probably going to butcher it, but you can maybe correct me of it. Is you kind of.
had a solution for it and they didn't tell you, you'd be upset with them about that. Can maybe dig into that a little bit deeper because I think that's great when it comes to having the right mind for prospecting.
Mark Hunter (08:04.238)
Yeah, here's the deal. I mean people only buy because they they are looking to deal with a pain or achieve a gain and actually people will pay more to absolve themselves of a pain than they will a gain and here's the thing if you have the ability to help them you owe it to them to reach out to them. Now here's the challenge you may have a solution you may know exactly what they need it doesn't matter.
It does not matter until they actually believe and they understand this is where the questioning fate This is where so many salespeople go Miss the boat They rush they rush to the sale, you know in technology we rush to the demo false big bad mistake We're gonna wait. We're gonna ask the customer questions. It's the discovery phase and it really is just
uncovering, unpacking, let the customer share with you everything that they're dealing with. My goal is to get the customer leading for saying, oh, please help me, please help me, please help me, please help me. When you can get the customer to that state, they buy. Now here's some
Mark Hunter (09:29.07)
And what I find very interesting is this. In the absence of trust, price is everything. Think about that for a moment. In the absence of price, trust, I mean, in the absence of trust, price is everything. The greater the level of trust I'm able to create with you, and trust is so many times measured by the quality of the conversations I have with you. If I have a quality conversation with you, it's amazing. I'm
You know what's interesting you trust me and then then when I do put the offer across the table to you You're gonna buy you are going to buy I'm not gonna have to negotiate the higher the level of trust Less likely the need to negotiate
Paul M. Caffrey (10:09.336)
Yeah, I think that's so powerful. And there's two things that jump out there is if we extrapolate that, well, number one is they will see, well, this is a fair price and I'm going to get tremendous value from it. So I don't need to go in and maybe haggle, let's say. But then the second part is.
Mark Hunter (10:24.832)
you
Paul M. Caffrey (10:34.456)
Yeah, you could be more expensive, but if they trust in you, they trust in your company and they trust more importantly in the results that they're going to achieve. Well, you know, that takes away a lot of risk. And one thing I'm seeing, you know, particularly in
you know, buyers are becoming more risk averse at the moment. You know, there is really is they need to make sure these decisions are right, because it is a tough, tough situation out there. And, you know, trust is one way to fast track yourself to that. So, you know, a lot of people talk about trust and say it's important. But, you know, you know, what are things that people can do to earn trust when they're in those conversations?
Mark Hunter (11:08.91)
Well, there's two things there. There's trust by association and trust you personally. Let me explain. Trust by association. If I'm in a conversation with you, Paul, and I can mention the names of other people who I know you respect, who I know you respect, who I know you respect, who I know you respect, who I know you respect, who I know you respect, who I know you respect, who I know you respect, who I know you respect, who I know you respect, who I know you respect, who I know you respect, who I know you respect, who I know you respect, who I know you respect, who I know you respect, who I know you respect, who I know you respect, who I know you respect, who I know you respect, who I know you respect, who I know you respect, who I know you respect, who I know you respect, who I know you respect, who I know you respect, who I know you respect, who I know you respect, who I know you respect, who I know you
you immediately begin to put me in that trust bucket, this trust by association. So that's, this is why I always sit there and say, if I'm prospecting in my niche, my core work and I can sit there and say, Oh yeah, I've been able to help X company or X person achieve the same thing. Wow. That is huge. There's also trust with you in trust with you is, is a couple things. A it's.
What your social media profile says on that social media will say Google. What does Google say about you? Cause when they Google your name, what comes up? What what's there? And let's not kid ourselves. LinkedIn is a huge depository of people's reputations. What is LinkedIn saying about you? What are you saying about other people? Now it also is by you because of your willingness to engage.
And when you come into a conversation with that person, are you doing all the talking? Or are you letting the other person do the talking? You know, one of the things that I love to say is that the best presentation ever made is the presentation never given. Think about that for a moment. Best presentation ever made is the presentation never given. Why? Because A, you know your stuff so well. I mean, you know your stuff so well, but you can just sit there and have a conversation with a customer.
That's what the customer wants. They want they and if we would spend as much time developing questions as we do the information we want to share, we'd be a lot better off. Because here's the whole thing. If I if I and this beautiful way to develop trust, I ask you a question, Paul, you share with me an answer. I ask you a follow up question. I don't race on to my next question. I ask you a follow up question and.
Mark Hunter (13:28.014)
We stay and we talk about that for a little bit. We talk about what you shared with me. That's absolutely terrific. Then we'll say we go our separate ways and we have a call to action. We've arranged another meeting coming up and we get back together for that first meeting. Hey, Paul, last time we met you shared with me X. I'd love to have you kind of walk me through again what you meant by that. Now, what does that do for you? You suddenly go, wait a minute, wait a minute. This Mark sales guy actually remembers.
Mark Hunter (14:11.006)
were just on the phone you mentioned this and you was very interesting. Prospects and customers are far more likely to respond to that type of an email than they will, hey buy from me, buy from me. They're not going to respond to that. Play back to the customer what they've played to you. It's kind of what tennis is all about. You know the ball comes across or we should say pickleball now you know it comes across the net and what you do you hit it back you hit it back.
Paul M. Caffrey (14:36.184)
Yeah.
Paul M. Caffrey (14:41.656)
it isn't it and yeah something Johnny Queen is an expert at as we both know. Very good and with that right the I think this is something which which people sort of make a mistake of you know they they look at the CRM as a bit of a hassle and they look at actually having to fill out notes and opportunities as some
Mark Hunter (14:44.99)
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Paul M. Caffrey (15:04.248)
you know, for me, you might take notes on the business or on the opportunity or whatever that could be. But then having some personal notes, there's no harm in that. And even I would have, you know, the first part is for personal notes and then the second is for business. So if there is something which has come up, you know, maybe somebody mentions, you know, their kids or whatever that might be or a trip that they're on, you know, being able to drop that in the next time you speak.
it does get you off to a much better start in that conversation or you even gives you an opening for that email. You know, oh, how is Costa Rica? Somewhere I'm thinking to go, oh, by the way, you know, we've got to see whatever it could be. It's a nice, comfortable way to open up communication as opposed to, hey, come along to this thing. It's great. And so well, I guess one thing when we were chatting in the prep for this.
And you mentioned the founders dilemma and I thought it was quite interesting and I'd love to touch upon it.
Mark Hunter (16:03.358)
Yeah founders dilemma, you know When you're a founder of a company you've come up with this product. You've come up with the solution You absolutely believe in it. This is your baby. This is you you are you are 100 % in on this and you Believe that this is gonna bring world peace. This is gonna solve hunger This is gonna take care of any problem anybody's ever had the challenges The marketplace doesn't think that way
Your employees don't think that way. Your employees are just that employees. They're not taking working for you as this life mission that they're on. They're taking it as a job.
Mark Hunter (16:47.806)
customers today, well, there's options, there's ideas. But this founder's dilemma is so real and it causes us to race to the solution because they know that this is perfect. So all they wanna do is just race to the solution. And I find this so difficult because a lot of salespeople, they'll take their founder out on a sales call. You gotta prep that founder to say, hey, slow down, slow down and let's just listen.
a listening call. Don't race. They also believe that their price is always, always justifiable. In fact, you know, their price should even be higher and they have a hard time seeing any of those things. Um, I'm working with a company right now that is in year two and year one, they assembled a tremendous amount of funding. They got a great, great round of funding and they hired a sales team and, um,
Now they're moving into year two and three. And I was sharing with the CRO. I said, now we get into years two and three are the years of disillusionment because in year one, everybody's all excited. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Suddenly year two and three, it's like, this is hard work. This is this work. And it's interesting because the CRO says, yeah, I'm having issues with the founders. There's three founders because the founders aren't saying, Hey, how come this isn't going faster?
It takes time. It takes time to find your footing out there. So there's a whole series of things that, that I believe, I mean, I love founders dearly. Um, one thing, and I think right now the marketplace is changing, you know, interest rates globally. It's considerably higher than they were two years ago. So that's changing private equity firms, venture capital firms, changing their modus operandi there.
Paul M. Caffrey (18:20.938)
Yep.
Paul M. Caffrey (18:38.584)
Yeah.
Mark Hunter (18:45.406)
procedural process. So I think there's some expectations that are being tempered, but it's still a brutal world out there.
Paul M. Caffrey (18:53.816)
Yeah, it's very, very tough. I think we're probably going to see a lot of, I guess, mergers acquisitions towards the end of the year or into next year. Because I do think a lot of these VCs, they're obviously very clever folks and, you know, they get it, although they get it wrong, more than they get it right. They often, they're incredibly profitable engines. I guess then, well, I think it's going to be quite interesting is.
I think some of the winners and losers are it's going to come down to how they're funded. You know, so who gets paid back first and, you know, preferential stock and all that. So there's a lot of stuff that we may not see from the outside, which might lead to some curious acquisitions and mergers over the course of the year. And some companies getting it, others not. And I think it's going to come back to to that side of things where people are maybe trying to grow a little bit too fast. But if we I guess we take it back a little bit.
There is a lot of founders now as their boots strapping and, you know, maybe they've taken a little bit of investment. I'm seeing a lot take on the sales mantra themselves and carry the target for the business in the initial year, maybe 18 months or so. What advice would you give a founder seller?
Mark Hunter (20:07.614)
Well, that's a critical issue. And you're right. More and more are do are doing bootstrap type. If you think about it, you and I are both founders. We have our own respective companies. We're founders, but we're also salespeople. We two things have to happen. One, you have to understand who is your marketplace. Who is your avatar? What's that? That ideal customer profile. And you got to stay locked in on that. And two, you have to be.
Mark Hunter (20:38.942)
We will never have a pipeline as full as we want it to be. That's a good point.
Mark Hunter (20:46.238)
T is not putting stuff in the pipeline. It's moving it through the pipeline. And we were talking, we were talking before the show about person who, you know, you know, the founder is able to get that initial meeting, but they're not able to push it through, not able to push it through. That's what you got. I always tell this to any founder out there.
Your goal is to have as few prospects as possible so you can spend more time with the ones you do have. Now, before people go freak out over that, what do I mean by that? Your pipeline needs to be like a water tap, not a sewer pipe. And what happens is when it becomes a sewer pipe, you can't move anything through it. It just becomes plugged up. It stinks.
Water tap. You turn the tap on in your home, water comes out quickly. That's what you want. And you do that by staying very focused on the ICP and understanding the outcome that you can help your customers achieve.
Paul M. Caffrey (21:49.816)
I really, really like that. And, you know, being uncomfortable with, you know, the pipeline you have, a lot of us feel that. But if you're if it's comfortably narrow because you've is full of the right prospects, then you're going to be in a position where you can, you know, if you if you carry the process on, you'll do quite well. I guess one thing founders can lean upon and it's actually I was chatting to John Barrows earlier who we both know. And that's something he he pontificates about is gives and gets.
So as a founder, there can be this pressure or this feeling that you maybe need to give, you know, you're doing the first meeting, but then maybe you need to give a workshop. You need to give something else. You need to give a concession. And sometimes you're not asking or taking things or getting things because you feel like you're, you know, you're not a sales person or as a founder, you'd be a little bit above that. But I think the reality is in those early days.
That title should nearly be replaced and say salesperson instead of founder, because if you're not successful with on the sales side, you know, the business, you know, I don't know how long it will last. So make sure that for everything that you're giving, you're getting something back. And to your point, if you're dealing that with the right people, you know, your ideal personas, you know, more often than not, things are going to go well versus yeah.
You know, that sewer pipe and you're talking to all sorts of companies and yeah, this big tech company wants the product, but I have to make 10 changes and they want it as well. But now we've got to get this compliance. And all of a sudden your resources are just stretched too much and you don't get any of those deals because there's so much complication that comes along.
Mark Hunter (23:21.886)
You know, that brings up a key piece because early on and working with this company and work with year one, we didn't know quite what the ICP was, the ideal customer profile. So we're dancing in about five or six different categories. Now he's moving to year two and three. I am taking the CRO and the CEO and we're calling it down to just two and a slight third verticals. That's it. That's it. That's where we're staying focused.
because we have to be able to create critical mass. To be able to create critical mass when you're limited on funds, you're limited on people, you're limited on everything, you've got to make every bullet. You know, if you post something on LinkedIn, your audience sees it. Your audience will see it. And if you post again, your audience will see it. Your audience will see it. It doesn't mean everybody on LinkedIn is seeing it. It's just your audience. And this is what's key. You got to know your vertical.
and stay absolutely tight with that because you've got limited bullets, you've got limited time, limited resources. You've got to make everything you do be absolutely spot on. And that is critical. I can't stress that enough because otherwise what will happen is you'll spread yourself too thin and then you get into this founder's dilemma where you're just shiny object, shiny object, shiny object. Big mistake, big mistake.
Paul M. Caffrey (24:29.61)
you
Paul M. Caffrey (24:47.256)
Yeah, you look, you really, really want to avoid that. And I remember, I remember seeing a VC on stage at a large tech event speaking and they turned around and they gave this knowledge to hard fight after room. They went, look, you're a startup, you're a founder. It's basically like your whole body's on fire and you know, money is water and you need a lot of water to put it out. So, you know, you need to know what you are the right customers to go after and what business you can win to keep things going.
as opposed to waiting too long. And again, everyone's like, well, that analogy, it was very visceral, but it certainly hit home that you need to think of now and the future, which is, I guess can be a little bit counterintuitive. If you don't mind, I'd like to take this in a very self.
Paul M. Caffrey (25:35.64)
see you. Well, firstly, to see you speak. So if anybody gets the opportunity to see Mark speak, jump on it because he really is truly a master of his craft and very, very enjoyable. And I guarantee you'll walk away with your I suppose what your your mind towards sales shifted and looking at things with a different perspective, which I always take as as a really positive thing when someone speaks. But I remember we were hanging out and we were walking around Lithuania. It was extremely cold. I wanted to get a taxi and you wanted to walk. So we walked.
And on that, you were saying, no, no, no, no, you were, you know, you were, you were super fit. It was. But yeah, I couldn't, I couldn't believe I couldn't believe. But putting that aside, I was asking you what speaker you had seen, who you thought was, let's say, you know, one of the best that you'd witnessed. I'm not sure if you'll remember who it was when it was a throwaway conversation. But you started chatting about Zig Ziglar and a lot of people have probably heard the name.
Mark Hunter (26:07.294)
Okay, I was stupid. Okay, I was stupid. We should have gotten attacked.
Paul M. Caffrey (26:35.16)
and maybe not much else. What can you share about Zig and his stuff?
Mark Hunter (26:40.862)
Zing did two things. He not only was incredibly insightful, but how he delivered his insights. He delivered them in short visual stories that you could relate to short visual lines at your mouth. Cause he knew that I could tell you 10 ,000 things you won't remember. But if I can give you one or two easy lines to remember one or two, you're going to walk away and do something.
Two, he absolutely understood the individual. In other words, everything was about the person, the mindset. And this is so key. Think about even, this is not only as a speaker on stage, but as a salesperson. You want, when you get done with a sales call, whether it be on Teams, Zoom, in -person, email, phone, whatever, you want them feeling, wow.
That person just impacted me in a positive manner. Is it that quote? Is it that little short line? Is it something? Because it's a noisy world out there. We have to be able to separate ourselves. And yeah, Zig Ziglin passed away 10 years ago. His content is still absolutely just as relevant today as it was back then.
Paul M. Caffrey (28:02.616)
Yeah, it's bringing bringing stories into how you sell is something which is overlooked because it's difficult to do, but definitely, definitely sticks with people. It's what people remember. One thing I'm coming across in the market today is there's a lot of younger sales people and maybe some some younger founders as well. And I look at me going, what you're like in sales 16, 17 years. I feel burnt out. I don't know how anybody does it this long.
You've obviously, you know, you've got a 25 year track record behind you. You know, how have you managed to maintain longevity?
Mark Hunter (28:39.646)
It's about people. It is about people. It's I wake up in the morning with an objective that I want to be able to influence and impact others in a positive manner. And if I can do that, it's been a great day. And it's not the product I'm selling. I mean, I have online programs. I've got books. I've got all kinds of stuff we sell. It's totally irrelevant. I want to influence and impact you because my goal.
The goal of sales and the goal of leadership is the exact same thing. It's to help others see and achieve what they did not think was possible. Stop and think about them. Help others see and achieve what they didn't think was possible. Now this begins with yourself. You first have to believe that you can see and achieve what you didn't think was possible. You know, it is interesting. I mentioned earlier that, uh, I'm going to run a half marathon. It's because on January one,
I made a commitment to run a thousand miles this year. I made a commitment to run a thousand miles and I've never done that before. I would run.
Okay, now to run a thousand miles a week, that's, you know, I mean to run a thousand miles, you know, in a year. And yeah, and what I had to do is I had to break it down, break it down, bring it down. But what it's doing is allowing me to see and achieve what I didn't think was possible. This is what we have to do in our own goal. This is why so many salespeople hold themselves back because they don't visualize the success they want to achieve. So when I said I'm going to set this goal of a thousand, I then had to break it down. That's...
Paul M. Caffrey (29:53.432)
That's a lot.
Mark Hunter (30:18.142)
82 miles a month It's about 20 miles a week and you begin breaking it down breaking it down And then it's just it's just one step at a time one step at time This is like I want to achieve my quota. I look at the quota and I go it's huge I'm not gonna make that quota, but I break it down into singular activities. This is what's so key And when I do that, guess what? I'm able to see and achieve what I think was possible. That's exactly what we have to do with our customers We're selling them
Because if you think about it, a great salesperson is helping their customers see and achieve what they didn't think was possible. What is a great leader doing? Same thing, helping others see and achieve what they didn't think was possible. Wow. And that is what jazzes me each morning when I wake up. There are going to be people hearing this podcast all over the world. And that jazzes me because just maybe.
There's one little idea I've been able to share you've been able to share that resonates with them to I want to come on your show because I want to help you be incredibly successful if I can help you be incredible a rising tide lifts all boats and and that's so because again zig -zag or what was it master the zig -zigglers the The easiest way for you to achieve your goals is to help others achieve their goals
I had a good friend, um, do something that was just incredible over the weekend at a conference. You know her Meredith, Elliot Powell, and, um, she spoke at a conference and it was just absolutely. And, um, I've been posting it on Facebook and LinkedIn and just talking to them and, um, because I want her to be able to take that, what she shared and take it to the next level. I want her to be able to succeed and, uh,
Paul M. Caffrey (31:47.448)
you
Mark Hunter (32:15.582)
It's just really cool to see the comments and, and I spoke with her yesterday. Oh man, Mark, thank you so much. This is.
Life is about helping other people. That's what sales is.
Paul M. Caffrey (32:31.608)
And when you put it that way, people who don't do sales maybe need to hear this and it might make more people want to do it, right?
Mark Hunter (32:37.342)
Yeah. There's this slimy opinion about sales and you know, it's why I say that sales is not a job. Sales is not a profession. Sales is a lifestyle. It's a lifestyle. Just helping people, just simply helping people. And if I do that, you know what? That's cool. That's a kick.
Paul M. Caffrey (33:05.752)
Yeah, it makes a big deal. And look, you know, if you go around and you sell and you...
you don't help those people really, you're not going to be around very long, especially as we cycle it back to, you know, even back to the start of the conversation as in social social proof is everything in the sense of, you know, what does your LinkedIn profile look like? Do you have recommendations from, you know, happy clients? Are you are you around as opposed to, you know, not being able to obtain them? And if you don't have those recommendations, it does look like you're potentially not able to get them.
Mark Hunter (33:16.19)
No!
Paul M. Caffrey (33:42.698)
get them. So that is something to be mindful of. You may feel uncomfortable asking for them, but it will help you help more people. And then we're back to that, you know, boats and rising tides, all the boats going up together. But I guess one one thing we've spoken a lot about prospecting throughout. What is your number one prospecting tip Mark?
Mark Hunter (34:04.862)
Do the activity. It just simply comes down to do the activity. Nobody wakes up in the morning saying, I want to buy from Paul. Well, no Paul, you probably have people waking up in the morning. I don't. And you just, that number one prospecting tip is you got to do the activity. That's it. It's not complex. It's just, and be prepared to rinse and repeat three greatest words on every bottle of shampoo. You rinse and repeat. Doesn't mean you send the same message out, but you send them another message. There's a person who I've been prospecting now for.
Eight or nine months and she's on my list today and I'll be reaching out to her again today. I'll get her. I know I can help her. I know I can help. I know I can make a huge impact on her. I'll get her. I'll get her. Uh, it's just going to take time. I closed a deal, uh, about four months ago. It took me three years to land this account. Three years, but I firmly believe that I could help them stay in the game.
Paul M. Caffrey (34:59.48)
Yep.
Paul M. Caffrey (35:04.28)
I know great advice really stay in the game and those longer deals. Yeah, I've had I've been involved in a couple of those and it is it is funny when some deals have anniversaries, but you know if they're if they're the right dealer through the big deals that makes sense to keep going after it from.
Mark Hunter (35:18.558)
Well, you know what to that sense, we don't close deals. We open relationships. I want people to think about that. Do not close a deal. You open a relationship while it changes everything.
Paul M. Caffrey (35:24.536)
Yeah.
Paul M. Caffrey (35:31.256)
Yeah, absolutely. And it's it's funny because those bigger deals, those longer deal cycles that we come across, they do tend to open the door to more deals because you have those relationships that you can look, you probably can still contact those people and reach out to them. And, you know, you would have spent so much time chatting with them. I mean, I guess we're digging into sales process stuff a little bit more now. But what is your number one sales tip, Mark?
Mark Hunter (35:58.142)
The number one sales tip is wake up singularly focused to help people achieve outcomes. It's not what you sell. It's the outcomes you help people. So the mindset, your own mindset is the most important sales tip. Believe in the impact you can have on others. Go out.
Paul M. Caffrey (36:18.264)
I really, really like that. And yeah, I mean, it's all about taking ownership of what you can do, what you can achieve. And it's in your own hands as much as people maybe feel it's not. So, yeah, I really, really like that. There are a lot of people who listen who are, you know, maybe they're looking to go for promotion and things are slowed down a little bit. So they're having to be a bit more strategic. What advice would you give somebody who's looking to go for that, to that senior?
a e -roll or maybe move break into leadership.
Mark Hunter (36:49.278)
Be looking at everything strategically. It's not tactically. You want to be looking at your customers downstream. Look at your customers upstream. What do you mean? Well, what we sell, how does that impact them downstream? That's the outcome. How does it impact them upstream? Their sourcing, all these other things. But your objective is to be looking at your customers in a very strategic manner. Two, what are you doing to help others on your team? The selfish player is uncovered very quickly.
You want to be one who gives of your talent and skills to help others. You know, when you do that, it's amazing. Other people will notice. Don't think for a moment, Oh, I can't help this person because they may become my boss. No, you know what? If it's a quality organization, senior management is going to sit there and say, Hey, you're the one making it happen. That's where you want to be spending your time.
Paul M. Caffrey (37:42.808)
Really.
Paul M. Caffrey (37:46.936)
And look, you can do you can do so much more than you actually realise. And building that out is a good example. What books do you recommend people check out on the topic of sales?
Mark Hunter (37:56.606)
Yeah, I tell you what, this is a non -sales book, Atomic Habits by James Clear. It's been out now for a couple of years. And I'll tell you what, if you have not read it, read it and read it again. James Clear, the book Atomic Habits. It's about how consistency and the small things done daily make an absolute difference in the sale. Another book who that I'm just coming back to, I was with the co -author at a conference over the weekend. That's the Challenger sale.
You know, that came out about probably about 15 years ago now. But, and it's incredibly insightful because it's challenging us to go deeper, deeper, deeper with our customers. And then of course, the book, the work that Paul M. Caffrey wrote. Gotta make sure you check that.
Paul M. Caffrey (38:42.744)
Oh, very kind. So yeah, I mean, the Challenger sale, I mean, that is certainly one that that's knocked around. And I guess that they've moved on. Jolt has come along and there's a bunch of them.
Mark Hunter (38:52.126)
Yeah, oh, you know and and jolt which is really good because jolt was written by one of the co -authors Matt, matt dixon And yeah jolt is a perfect compliment to the book the challenger sale
Paul M. Caffrey (39:06.296)
Yeah, definitely, definitely. Well, probably for most want to go back to it, but too definitely to check out. And look, you know, thank you for the very kind mention. And I guess when it comes to preparation, I know I'm big on preparation. You know, what is doing the work before the work in the life?
Mark Hunter (39:26.142)
If you're not reading at least 15 to 30 minutes, I read close to 50 books a year because I'm continuously looking to learn. When I see an individual who says, I don't read books, I go, you know what? Life's going to pass you by somewhere. Top performers are constantly looking to uncover new insights. So I will read 40 to 50 books a year and I thoroughly love it because it...
It gives me new insights, new perspectives. That's why the Challenger sale. I'm going to be rereading it again.
Paul M. Caffrey (40:02.936)
Yeah, it's great to go back to. And what I always find is when you read a book and you go and check it out, I mean, you kind of think, yeah, I know what that's about. Yeah, yeah, challenge or sale, getting five or six people involved, multi -trend. No, yeah, I know I'm there. I'm there with you.
But you will find something that will resonate with you now that maybe wasn't so important beforehand. And that is key. And particularly one great thing I like about when you go back and read and I wasn't expecting you to share that answer, actually, the reading perspective. That's quite a unique one that has been shared when I ask people that question. It is that a lot of people and your book is a good example of this.
Well, for people listening, it's maybe not very clear, but I've got posted notes in it and you can see like I've written down some notes and I've dug into it. That's high, high profit prospecting. You will take away something because people put a lot.
Mark Hunter (40:55.454)
Love it.
Mark Hunter (41:02.59)
Mm -hmm.
Paul M. Caffrey (41:11.704)
So it really is people putting their best foot forward. So that can be really, really helpful and make it very easy for you to take that inside out or to take those learnings out and actually start applying them. So yeah, there you go. That's unexpected, but that's what I agree with.
Mark Hunter (41:25.406)
You know, real quick, top performing people look at everything as there's something to be learned. Average people will say, oh, there's nothing to learn here. There's none to learn. But I have found top performing people have, are inquisitive about learning and regardless of the situation they're in, they're always going to come away with, Hey, I learned something. I learned something. And when you have that mindset, it's amazing at what will happen long -term.
Paul M. Caffrey (41:46.552)
Yeah, no.
Paul M. Caffrey (41:50.648)
It really, really is. And then you can, you know, the world is serendipitous. You don't know when it's actually going to serve you. But I've no doubt it will serve you. Mark, thank you so much for coming on. How can people find out more about what you're doing?
Mark Hunter (42:06.558)
Well, the saleshunter .com is the website, the saleshunter .com. Plenty of insights there. Of course, the two main books, high profit prospecting, as you talked about Paul, thank you. And my other book, a mind for sales. Uh, but anyway, Hey, I'm all over LinkedIn, all over YouTube and you just saw I do is Google the sales Hunter Mark Hunter. And, um, I come up.
Paul M. Caffrey (42:33.624)
Yeah, there you go. And you certainly are an easy man to find online. If you get a chance to see Mark speak, jump on it, because it's extremely entertaining. And yeah, your online university is pretty good as well. So a lot of sales resources there.
Mark Hunter (42:45.758)
It is. Yeah, we do. And of course we've got a couple of podcasts, Sales Logic podcast, the Sales Center podcast. But of course, make sure you're subscribing to your podcast first. So anyway.
Paul M. Caffrey (42:56.298)
Yeah, yeah, very kind. And one thing I do like is you are one of the few podcasts yourself, Emerita, to do it live.
Mark Hunter (43:03.326)
Yes. Yes. Sales logic is always done live. We do it at eight o 'clock Eastern time, um, Saturday mornings, Meredith, Elliot, Pal and I, and, and we do that for two reasons. One is the only time we happen to be both available, but two, it demonstrates the consistency, the importance of consistency in sales. And so, you know, when we say we're going to make the commitment at eight o 'clock Eastern time, wherever we are in the world, we've done the show from.
Lithuania, I've done the show from Japan Meredith has done it from Ireland Spain Hawaii we went all over the world Regardless of the time if it's 8 a .m. Eastern time we're doing the show and because salespeople who are top achievers are Committed and they don't deviate from their routine
Paul M. Caffrey (43:54.488)
Yeah, that's so key. And for people in Ireland, the UK like me, that's one o 'clock. So on a Saturday, that's typically when the kids are going for a nap and then I get the notification on the phone so you can you can jump on and have a look. Mark, thank you so much for coming on and look forward to the next time we speak.
Mark Hunter (44:04.414)
I love it.
Mark Hunter (44:08.798)
Great, thank you.
Paul M. Caffrey (44:13.464)
this.
