Paul M. Caffrey (00:00.078)
Welcome to another episode of million dollar stories where we get to interview authors from all over the world. And I love talking to authors. They have the courage to take their thoughts, put it down on a piece of paper, potentially build a business from it. And that business will change the world. And if you're looking to get a book done out there, go to dream starters, publishing .com. We can help you wherever you're at in the process. And if you have a book out there, you're trying to create leads with your book, go to book marketing, crm .com. Anyways, this book that we're about to talk about is all about the work.
before the work. And if you're looking to boost your sales, maybe get your mind right before you do so, this guy is all over the place. His website is very well done and it's gonna be an honor to talk with him in a very short bit here. The book, once again, is the work before the work, the hidden habits elite sales professionals use to outperform the competition. And I will tell you,
Whenever I was in entrepreneur sales out of the gate, 2008, 2009, uh, starting a business, I learned a bunch of skills that I applied to the corporate world and it allowed me to succeed. And there was a major difference between my mentality compared to somebody who just grew up into the corporate space. So being an entrepreneur gave me an advantage and it allowed me to succeed in the corporate space. And then what I learned from the corporate space, basically the culmination of those two allowed me to become.
even a better entrepreneur, better sales rep for my own company, which started 2016. So I can't wait to get into this conversation. The author Paul M. Caffrey is with us today. So I appreciate you being here, sir. Mike, thanks so much for having me on. Really looking forward to it. Well, let's start off with the genesis of this book. It's all about discovering the six hidden habits of elite sales performers. So what made you want to sit down and write this book? Well, for me, it.
Came out of working in the sales industry, so I'd worked in tech sales at 14 years there, and I went through this period where everything was going really, really well. And around 2013, 2014, I hit a plateau. There was no more hours in the day to work. I was getting up early, six o 'clock, four o 'clock on a flight, six o 'clock in a rental car, doing meetings, and then at the point of doing quotes in the evening time, sometimes even in the bar. And then I was looking at this going.
Paul M. Caffrey (02:18.542)
Okay. Things have plateaued here. I can't actually perform anymore. So I started looking into elite performance and that was really when I started to come across the hidden habits, elite sales performers use. I was looking at Olympians, looking at sports people, and more importantly, looking at other sales professionals. And I realized there's a few things that they were doing that they never didn't do. And that all centered around preparation. And for me, I.
I just thought this has to be shared because it's the one thing that anybody can take ownership of. If you can improve your preparation, you can improve the outcome of the opportunities that come into your world. And that for me was a turning point. And that led to me over a three year period, working with and studying elite performers that I was surrounded with and breaking down, distilling down exactly what they were doing that actually got them to outperform the competition.
And that was why I felt I have to share this. This has to go out into the world. And that's, that's what happened. It's just been published now at 18 months and it's been tremendously successful. Wow. So when you say preparation, is it almost like a ritual that you need, whether it's daily, weekly, or monthly? Cause it made me think of the moment you said that what Tony Robbins does before he walks out on every stage, there is a ritual, there's a preparation.
Even though he's a master at it, even though he's the best at it, there's still something that there's still something that he does that puts him in the state of mind to perform at his very best. So is that part of it or am I looking at it from a different angle? So you are, you're onto something there and it is along those lines, but the key thing is the top performers don't realize they're actually doing it. So they have routines and they have things that they lean on. But if you ask an elite performer, particularly in sales,
What do you do that's so good? They'll say, buy sell, meet customers. They'll give you these surface level answers and they don't help. And the key thing then is if you actually look into their actions, that's where we really see what's going on. So let's say, for example, if somebody, if an elite sales performer meets somebody at a conference, maybe it's a prospect or maybe it's someone that they work alongside. The conversation won't be.
Paul M. Caffrey (04:30.67)
How's the weather? How was the trip here? Yeah. What's going on? It won't be that mundane piece. It will be interested in what's this other person, what are they looking to achieve? What's the reason they took a day out of their life to come to this event? And they will center around the conversation, senses around that. And then it's a case of, okay, yeah, you're here. And they're thinking, well, this person, they're at this event. They might be looking to drum up business. And there's a great talk about that on certain stage.
They'll mention that they'll recommend that to them. They'll start being curious and all of a sudden the energy changes and it becomes a real value exchange. And that's a really small snippet and that's getting prepared in the moment when you've met somebody that you don't expect. And of course what's going to happen, somebody, they get a piece of advice or they get something from that person. It's useful to them. That's going to make them memorable. That's going to make them go, Oh, well.
You know what you need to chat with this person because then you also get the opportunity to share what you're doing and what you're looking to get out of the event itself. So you're making me think of a new slide that I could present right now to my, uh, my audience when I speak, because I automatically assume that they understand that a book leads to authority. But what I can, what I could really do is really bridge the gap between who's here and they want to boost their influence and authority, right?
And then I could basically say, this is what you all want to achieve, right? It's me asking the question and then providing the solution that this is a stepping stone to obtaining that. And so asking good questions is a part of every great sales rep, is that right? Yeah, the questions, I mean, they need to be thoughtful and we don't want the surface level stuff is boring, right? So yeah, go into that. And essentially, if you're in that situation and if you're in that preparing for that slide, let's say it's.
What is your audience looking to achieve? How are they going to achieve that? And then reversing it around and asking that for yourself. Well, what am I looking to achieve and how am I going to achieve that? And the beauty is if your conversation or if you're when you're speaking on stage, if you can address that, but then you can also drop in what you're looking to achieve as well, then people will know how to find you for the people that you resonate with and actually want to find out. I want to get a bit more info from Mike. I maybe want to work with Mike's company, whatever it might be.
Paul M. Caffrey (06:46.734)
But it's putting it out there as opposed to just going, hey, I'm this great entrepreneur. I've been running businesses for so long and things are so, so good. But the other thing, which I think is really key when experience in sales can be a big problem. And what I mean by that is if you've got somebody who is, let's say they've closed a lot of big deals, they know what they're doing. They're extremely capable.
they tend to become complacent. And what this means is the preparation for those next big meetings, it isn't done at the same level. And they will get through that meeting and you'll probably do fairly well because you've closed business before, you've been successful, you've got coaches that you can lean upon. But the elite performers, no matter how much business they've closed, no matter how good they are or how experienced they are, they always prepare. And I've seen the countless top performers, particularly in the tech sales field,
and they will be doing solution presentations. They will be practicing demos four, five, six, seven times. They will have that wider team who are there to support them to deliver that demo. We're even demented because we don't need to do this. We know what we're doing. We're experienced, you're experienced. But it's the nuance that's capturing those moments where things could go either way or you could gloss over something that's really critically important. And...
Again, when you go through something in a multiple times, it just puts you in that position to actually drive towards that successful outcome. Habit number two, what is the current situation? You're making me think of how I help people with their books. It's basically analyzing where are you at right now? And I really don't ask the question where, what, where are you at as in what's the current situation look like? But maybe I'm doing certain things that really fall in line with what lead lead sales performers are doing. So tell us a little bit about habit two.
I mean, is this something that a question that you ask as an elite performer? Is this a question you ask every single one of your prospects? So I will ask a variation of it, but that will be informed. Okay. So what we think about is you've got your prospects, you've got yourself, and then you've got external stakeholders to copy investors in the business to copy other people working in different departments. There's typically three groups of people that are going to benefit are going to be important on that. So.
Paul M. Caffrey (09:04.27)
Think about that when you're going into a sales situation. And from a current situation, what we want to be thinking about is, before we go in, what that is. So first is competition. Is there an incumbent provider in there at the moment, the solution that they're using? Do we know we're going to be up against somebody else? So let's say if you're selling a CRM like Salesforce, do you know that they're also going to be evaluating HubSpot? And there is, if we're looking at the status quo,
That used to be the big thing, right? They're going to, if you've got a competitor, we've got the status quo. There's now another one in there, which is looking at the fear of not making the right decision, which is delaying people to make any decision. That fear of making the wrong decision will delay. So we look on that from a competition standpoint and we kind of think of, well, where do we think we are? Then we move on to the relationships. And if there is an incumbent or if there is another supplier who we're competing with,
Are we are we new? Do we know these people at all? Or actually, have we got a little bit of a relationship because our exec did a bit of work with them before they worked with us previously? And then also looking at that from the perspective of, you know, competitors, is there someone else who's got a stronger or weaker relationship? Is that something that we maybe need to be concerned about? Do we need to get multiple levels of people on our selling team aligned with people on their selling team so that we can have those right conversations at the right levels when they're needed? And then the final piece.
Is the catalyst. Why are you even having this sales conversation? Have you knocked down the door and managed to get your way to the table? Have they invited you in either? It's important to understand which one it is because that will help frame things. But what you also want to be mindful of is even if you've knocked the door down and you've got in there, it's not necessarily a bad thing because nobody is going to meet with you just because you're a nice guy. Mike's cool. Yeah, let's have a meeting. What are you talking about? Yeah. You know.
That's that can happen, but probably not. The reason they're going to chat, which is they've got a problem that they think you might be able to help them solve. And ultimately what we want to look at is that's the current situation in a nutshell. So before we're going in, we've got an idea of what those things are. Are there going to be gaps? Yeah, we're not going to know that all the time, but now we're in a position where we can actually look to address that and meet that head on. Love it. Yeah. And I guess.
Paul M. Caffrey (11:30.19)
I think, and maybe you could share the same sentiment, the greatest sales reps are the most curious. And maybe I tend to think sales reps and entrepreneurs are one in the same. If you think like an entrepreneur, you're automatically very curious. And so great sales reps are curious by nature. Where are you at? Why are you here? How can I help you? And capitalism, the greatest definition I've ever heard is wealth through servitude. The greatest sales reps have the mentality that I'm here to serve you.
to make it as easy as possible for you to take action with whatever solution I offer. Is that right? Yeah, absolutely. I think there's a few nuances to add to it. The first is the outcome is the sale. And ultimately, yeah, it will be great if all of our prospects bought from us, but that's not realistic in no matter what you look to sell. So rather than thinking about certain things in the terms of, well, we're going to win the business, we're going to lose the business.
It's a case of can we have that curious conversation? Can we understand the problem? Can we get agreement on what the root cause of the problem is? And if our solution meets the root cause that they that they're suffering from, well, then we're in the position to actually go and offer the solution. However, maybe our solution doesn't align with that and we can help somebody make a confident yes, no decision. So as a sales professional, that's when you know you've done your work adequately.
when you've gotten somebody to be able to make that decision, whether it's a yes or whether it's a no, we want more yeses than nos, it'll always be due the way round. And that is driven by curiosity because very easy to take one surface level problem and go, oh, you want to increase sales by 30%. Well, my solution can do that. And then it goes straight into a solution proposal, but then miss out on what's really going on, which, as you say, Mike, is key from a curiosity standpoint. And our salespeople, like entrepreneurs,
Yeah, it's kind of two sides of the same coin, right? Because whether you are a solopreneur or whether you're working in a large company and you've got a very slim territory to go after, you should be really looking to run that like a business. How are you going to drive revenue from that territory? How are you going to service those customers? How are you going to make them want to actually resign with you? How are you going to help them solve bigger problems that are going to end up with them?
Paul M. Caffrey (13:51.342)
actually is driving more revenue your way and for them to improve off the back of that. So yeah, I mean, from that perspective, Mike, in an absolute agreement. Well, I like, I think it's chapter six, but this is something that definitely comes instinctually. Um, but sometimes I don't share it with my Salesforce enough. We need to show them that we know the prospects show me, you know, me God, I love that phrase. Can you tell us the significance of this chapter?
It's what's really huge about that is you can go in and you can meet somebody or you can meet somebody virtually. And you can have the exact same meeting, but if you get that meeting off to a start, which is it's not fluent. It's a little bit awkward. That impacts the rest of the meeting. So for example, you could talk to somebody and be like, Oh, you're from this city and the sports team was playing last night. Oh yeah. How was the game? Yeah. Oh, I don't watch sports.
straight away takes the oxygen out of the room or you're, you know, we're back, you know, let's say we're in your office and I'm like, oh, that's a lovely, lovely picture of your kids there. That's yeah. Oh, this is someone else's office. I don't know who they are. And then you're like, oh, okay, right. Bit awkward. As opposed to if you can share something with somebody that they didn't expect you to know, that's going to get them to lean in and that's going to get them very much more engaged in what you have to say.
So like a mind reader, almost like a mind reader. Is that right? Well, I mean, you could say I wouldn't go that far. But if it comes down to the fact of if you can define somebody's problem better than they can define it themselves, they will automatically credit you with having the solution. So if you actually already have an interest in their business, in their industry or something about them, that puts you off to a better start. So I hear what you're saying. Next question is, well, how do I do that? That sounds great.
But what do I actually do? And it comes down to really simple is looking at the individual, looking at the business and looking at the industry and looking at the past. So what's happened? So where's that person worked? What's what's that business sold for? Where are they up to? And in the industry, similar. Then we look at through the present lens of what's going on at the moment. And then what do we see is happening? So if we look at that individual, does it look like they're going to go out and start their own business? Does it look like they're
Paul M. Caffrey (16:15.95)
Anglin to go into a different role. What's the natural progression for them for the business? There's typically, you know, if it's a large company, there's reports that you can look at, or sometimes there's soundbites from owner CEO's board. Where, where do they say they're going? And then the industry again, very easy to find out what's happening in a lot of industries. If you actually just put in industry trends 2024, but more importantly dot PDF.
You'll probably be able to find a lot of white papers from some of the, some of the big account and accountancy houses that will actually give you incredible insight on industries. So if you're bringing in a perspective, a point of view, that makes all the difference. Rest of your meeting can be the same, but that will start you off absolutely on the right track. You know, whenever I meet with people and I say, all right, you're thinking about putting a book out into the world. Who is it for? Who's the target audience? And the moment I hear, Oh, it's for everybody.
I know there's work to be done, right? There is, if you're writing a book for everyone, you're going to reach no one in that same. It's the same philosophy with a business. So imagine the sales rep who sits down with somebody who did incredible, the sales rep did incredible marketing and in the right person enters their zoom call or whether it's a consultation or their meeting or their webinar, whatever it is. And that person knows that individual's journey very much like the hero's journey. I know exactly where you come from.
And my message has resonated with you to such a high degree that either you're attracted by it or you're, you're deterred by it. You will deselect me out of your own life. Once you are in front of the right audience, there's already an understanding that you know each other. And so the moment I shifted from, Hey, do you need a book done? We can help you to, Hey, are you an author or soon to be author that has a business? Are you an entrepreneur at heart? That, that, that little shift.
changed our business drastically because now I'm talking directly to people who I know their journey. I know what they want and I can share time with them a lot easier because I know what they're trying to get out of it. And it was wild to see how my company kind of really took off because of it. Oh, they have a business. We know how to help them. We know where they're going. It was very streamlined and that little shift of we can help everyone to helping only this specific group.
Paul M. Caffrey (18:37.006)
did wonders. You think right out of the gate that, oh, if I deselect this whole group of people from jumping on these sales calls, that it's actually going to hurt me. No, it actually helps you because you molded a relate. You, you strengthen a relationship with this person. So I'm basically saying before they even get on that call or the moment they get on that call, I know who you are. I know what you want to accomplish and you know what I'm all about. So the more specific, the more niche, the better is what I'm hearing. Is that right?
Yeah, absolutely. You want, you want to be able to go down that narrow way because the other side of it, right. If, if, if, you know, I'm doing my keynote speaking, if I stand in front of an audience and I go, yeah, hands up, who'd like to write a book? Everybody, most people are like, yeah, I'd love to have a book. That sounds cool. Yeah, that'd be nice, wouldn't it? You know, just something to show off the family and friends. Um, but then if I asked the same question, okay, well, look, who here's, who here's going to write a book? Most people are like, no, I'm not going to do that.
And then they're like, well, actually, I don't want to do the work and I don't want to do the work. That doesn't sound like fun. But the ultimate thing is ironically for you, you probably want to get the people who don't want to write a book, but have an outcome that they want. So they want to grow their business if they want to become a key person of influence that actually is able to go to another level, speak on whatever it could be. So it's speaking to that outcome. And again, it's it's somewhat similar when you're talking about who to target, because in sales.
We've got our ideal customer profile, then we've got the personas within that. There can be multiple personas, but knowing who they are, why they, why you, and how you can help them essentially. And knowing if you can't help them, knowing that early as well and kind of say, no, go to someone else. It's absolutely key because if you want to write, if you want to make courses, there's probably great people to go and work with for courses. If you want to get books done, Mike's the guy. And these are the key things that you really need to.
build into your sales process because especially starting off, it's very easy to say yes to everything to try, say, try, please everybody who comes in and shows a bit of interest. You end up with this big pipeline, very little of a closest. So again, we want to qualify out as fast as we can and then serve the people who we can serve again and again. You believe that the greatest entrepreneurs or greatest sales reps are speaking to individuals who are just like them or who they used to be.
Paul M. Caffrey (20:58.382)
Like I always talk about, if you write a book, you're basically writing to who you are now or who you used to be your former self. And it's because you know what that person's thinking and therefore you can really resonate. So have you noticed that the elite sales performers are basically having a conversation with themselves to some degree? It's, it's an interesting one. So what, what I think is the elite sales performers, they're looking at the people that.
they're serving and they're understanding deeply what they need and if they can help them. So from that perspective, a lot of the time, the people that you're selling to, whether they've got the same background as you doesn't really matter. It comes down to can you solve a problem for them where there is actually a significant outcome that can be achieved that they need or preferably an outcome that they need to avoid because that will make them go a little bit. They'll make them take action a little bit faster.
When it comes to meeting people who are exactly like you, I mean, you can meet somebody who's got the same disc profile or they've got similar interests that will help you build that relationship that bit faster. But it doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to get the deal or get the business. Now, when we're talking about writing books and we're talking about helping people, the best place to start is to help people solve problems that you've actually solved already.
And that typically is people who are further, you know, who are at the start of their career, not as far along as you, and you've got the greatest authority to help them. Then you'll reach a stage where that will wear off eventually, because if you run from one thing to something else, and then you go into another point of when you're building out your business or, you know, your, whatever you're going through in the next stage of your career. And that's when it goes a little bit more into wider, focusing on, you know, problems, outcomes, things like that. But it definitely helps relationships, that's for sure.
Yeah, I think that communication is, you might think you're a great communicator, but if it's not landing, if you're saying 10 words when you absolutely can say five, and you're saying things in a way that it just doesn't connect right out of the gate, you're not going to get that sale. And so communication, obviously a skill set that the better you get at it, the more you're able to close deals because you were able to condense time, you're able to condense the...
Paul M. Caffrey (23:20.654)
the verbiage and get people to understand faster and probably at a higher level and therefore you can move them from one stage to the next. And so maybe that is part of one of the other hidden habits. And I think it might be in probably habits, have it four or five and six, but how will you achieve this, right? Articulating your solution. Jordan Peterson has this great way. Your level of income is directly related to how well you articulate your solutions. So if you can do this,
you're going to be effective at getting them to pull out their wallet and pay for your services because if you can articulate it, they understand it, it most likely connects the dots for them internally. So tell us a little bit about number four here. Yeah. So what you're looking at is you always want to be thinking of how you're going to, how are we going to do this? What obstacles are going to get in your way? And if you are prospecting, one of the obstacles that you'll come across is
There's loads of other people sending cold email and I might not actually even get noticed or might not get seen. So in that case, we want to make it as easy as possible for somebody to see it. And we want to actually get to a point of if they actually see our communication by mistake because they took out their phone and flashed up at an opportune time that we resonate. So to your point of making things simple, when we read emails, we read them in an F shape. So having a sentence that's a bit longer than a bit shorter, a bit longer, and then a couple of other short.
really, really keep. We can't help but read that email. It just hits us. Keeping the words to the minimum, keeping the language as simple as possible. Great app, Hemingway app dot com. It's free. And you can actually just use that to check, have you made your sentences more convoluted or actually are they as short and as concise as possible? So at a grade six reading level. And then there are things. My co -author is a big fan of this is in certain psychometric, in certain phrases that will actually.
speak to you to you at a deeper level. So for example, you know, I'm not sure if this is for you, but and then insert whatever it is straight away, we are hitting with I decide what's for me, not you. You tell me I'm going to I'm going to decide that. So from a prospecting perspective, that's what we have to be thinking of a water the obstacles. Other things are. I know people.
Paul M. Caffrey (25:38.254)
Don't pick up the phone anymore. So maybe I can use that to my advantage. Just a lot of great tools out there for finding mobile numbers. Well, I can find a couple or if I'm on LinkedIn and we're connected. 99 % of people don't bother sending voice notes, but it's really, really easy to do so you can send them as you can send a voice note. So these are things of prospect and there's the obstacles that I need to overcome to stand out. Or maybe I networked and I know somebody who actually is in the account that I want to get to, or is, is, is connected with someone who I'd like to speak with. It is going and making that ask and going, going to that person.
If we're talking about deals, what's super important is having a plan, having a roadmap and actually sharing that with someone. So if you know, if someone like is, you know, they, okay, now I'm ready to do a book. It is being able to comfortably talk to me. Okay, well, if you want to do a book, you're going to have to come up with the idea. You're going to have to go through the, you know, the five different levels of editing from idea right down to, I suppose, line editing, all that stuff.
I'm articulating that out. And what I found is really, really key. And a lot of people miss this is they don't maybe share this mutually. They don't agree this mutually upfront. And you know that there's probably stages in your sales process or when somebody actually is going through and using your services, they run into an issue or we typically see problems here. They just, you know, they get a bit slow and sluggish providing an edit or whatever it may be. If you call that out ahead of time and you go.
This is the problem that typically tends to happen. What are we going to do in this situation? How are we going to prevent that from happening and then have them share with you? Well, if that happens, you know, you can get into my PA and they'll make sure to prioritize time goes on the calendar, whatever it might be. Then when that time comes along, you can then push that lever. And I guess the final piece, and it kind of leads into that is, is getting commitment from the other person that if we're going to work together, that you will actually follow these steps and being transparent in that.
Yeah. Getting people to, I guess, nod or say yes to some of the things you bring up early on. It does create a pattern of number one, you knowing that they understand, but number two, you actually, they actually understand that you care if they're getting it as you're giving the sales pitch. I think that's crucial. But the question I have for you is, depending on if you're selling in person on a zoom call,
Paul M. Caffrey (28:05.23)
or in person or on a Zoom call or on a stage or one to many, is the sales pitch or is there a skill set that's required in each environment that's a little bit different? Does it transform a little bit? Because I think storytelling has to be a part of it to some degree. Telling the story of where you're at now and we're going to go and what it's going to look like, absolutely crucial. And I think depending on the timeframe, the environment,
and potentially the person you're speaking to, it's going to transform just slightly. So what do you say about that? Yeah, it's there absolutely is differences in those environments, but a lot of what you need to do at a high level remains the same. You know, look, stories resonate much more than facts or data. You know, when I work with teams, I see account executives go from struggling hitting 60, 70 percent of target true.
a quarter where they actually start generating a little bit more pipeline and then towards the end of the year, they're in the position of hitting a hundred, 150%. And then they're looking at promotions to the next teams, or they're looking at going into leadership roles themselves. And a lot of stories around that. And that could be really, really impactful for you, particularly if you were a sales professional and you were at that mark and you're like, Oh, I was that and I can go the other. But to hit on a few key points, because I'm aware that there's probably people listening who are selling in a lot of these different scenarios in person is the best way to sell.
However, what you'll find is a lot of people, particularly since the pandemic, they don't have time and they don't really have a preference to meet you. Maybe not straight away anyway, maybe a little bit further down the sales cycle. And if you're in the position of, you know, kicking off something on a zoom, well, I'd say it's face to face. Have your research done, have your point of view and know the journey you want to go on that meeting. If it's discovery, you know, know the five steps of discovery. But if you're on a zoom call.
It can feel a little bit. It still feels a little bit strange. It still feels like we're not really meeting each other. We're just talking to our laptops. But if you frame that and go. Usually I like to be with people sitting there knee to knee and chatting and having a coffee together in one of our future meetings. Perhaps we'll be able to do that too. But I want you to make the treat this as if we're actually in the same room. So that means everybody just chat when they want.
Paul M. Caffrey (30:23.822)
That then reframes people to think, oh, OK, yeah, it's a little bit like face to face. But then you're kind of getting back to that face to face meeting over over Zoom. When you're looking to sell from stage, the problem that you're going to have is face to face and on Zoom, you can have back and forth and you can have questions and you can dig into the problems that are specific to that person and actually see how you can solve them. On stage, you can't really do that. Yeah, you can ask a question and, you know, who here thinks they're open minded or whatever. Put your hand up.
But what you have to do in that situation is think of, well, what are the three or four most common objections that I would come across is I don't have time to write a book. I wouldn't know anything to write about. I don't know. I had no idea how to promote or market. I don't know how I'd be able to get leads from it. So then you build that into your into your presentation and you just speak to those three or four points that are key objections. So then what you're doing is you're taking somebody from I'm interested to.
Oh, I can see how the problems that I would face, I'd be able to get past. Yeah. I want to, yeah. I want to chat with Mike. I want to know a bit more. Nice. Yeah. I think that, uh, you know, speaking and sailing from the stage is a whole different game. And I've done a bunch of speeches, but number one, it's nerve wracking. Number two, it's you don't have as much time as you think. And because I don't have that interaction, the back and forth, the tossing of the football, if you will, it's a different game for me. And it's almost like I got a.
know the audience very well. And if it's a tough audience, very much like a comedian, I mean, you're only as good as your audience, in my opinion. So if you're in the wrong rooms, the greatest speaker will not land. You put Tony Robbins into a room that nobody cares about, you know, motivation and, you know, self -development and he's not going to land. It's just how it is. Yeah. So that's, that's absolutely crucial. So last question I have for you though is sales reps that have no...
I guess you could say breadcrumbs of authority behind them. Like I think that the greatest sales reps can walk into a room and be like a chameleon and kind of outline some of the things they've done and show their expertise in the shortest amount of time. How would you say a sales rep who's an elite performer, how can they boost their authority in such a short amount of time? If they don't have a lot of social proof, their name's not on Google, they don't even have a book yet, what would you say to somebody?
Paul M. Caffrey (32:44.622)
There are two things that I would recommend. And I've worked with a lot of elite performers and I've seen them go from that entry level salesperson and you speak with them, you're like, they're going to go places and then go to the ranks. I mean, enterprise sellers over maybe three to five years time where they've launched that startup, which you're surprised they've failed at a college startup and then they've been successful. So the two things are number one is making sure that you are prepared for.
all of these situations, which is no surprise because preparation is what I'm big about. But it's it changes a little bit when you're inexperienced and you don't have maybe some of the accolades, the experience, everything else that people you could probably competing with do have. So it's a case of you can always have a perspective, you can always have a point of view, you can always do the preparation. Well, bring that up at the start of the meeting and call it out.
I'm very happy to meet you today. It feels like this is a big challenge for the industry. It looks like your business is going that way. And I'm intrigued to see how you're going to go and deal with that situation. I'm I'm new to this. I'm only six months in, but it feels to me like this is something that you'll need to address. I want to get your perspective on it. Yeah. Honest and transparent. Very nice. Absolutely. It's like that of an old movie now. What you probably remember first time around eight miles M &M.
said all the stuff at the rap battle at the end. So the person who was battling couldn't use it and he goes and wins it. So spinning around. And the second, the second thing is that that's a preparation and then showing you the preparation and sharing it is I'm going to recommend actually it's a book. It's from Todd Herman, The Alter Ego Effect. And what he speaks about in that is there are so many top athletes, there are so many great performers and we think that they've always just had it when they haven't. And actually it.
A funny one, but a very public one is Beyonce. You know, everyone's heard of Beyonce. She was a church singer. She was from a very conservative background. When she was singing the song, she didn't feel comfortable. Now she spoke about this, her alter ego, Sasha Fierce. She is never Beyonce singing. It's her alter ego. So when you're going into this, into these situations and you're speaking with people who are much more experienced, much more accomplished and you're competing against people in that same manner, to allow you to perform at the level you want.
Paul M. Caffrey (35:07.854)
It's really about getting yourself into the mindset to be able to do that. And Todd Herman's work and what he does allows you to get there. And I mean, he's worked with Fortune 500 executives, Cristiano Ronaldo, Kobe Bryant, a lot of top sports teams, US Olympians. The methods are proven and the methods work. And that can really help you when you're early on in your sales career. So be prepared and get an alter ego. That's a great piece of advice. I think it was Kobe Bryant, maybe of somebody in that world that talked about practice like you're a beginner.
play like you're a champion, right? Walk into every courtroom or a court or walk onto every court as if you've never played a game before and practice like you're not the go -to guy yet, right? And so when you practice like that and then you shift the mind whenever it's go time, you're the go -to source. You have everything that you need and you're prepared and you're ready to go. And so that's that alter ego. I like how you put that. And for him, it's the black mama and Todd built that with him.
So I mean, it's it's it's massive adult there and there. And actually, interestingly enough, a buddy of mine who I saw a few weeks ago in New York, Alan Stein Jr., he he did a bit of work coaching Kobe. And he is he's a lot of great info and a lot of great stories about that. But one of the things is he shares is that Kobe, even towards the end of his career, always always did the basics. He was always practicing the stuff that you wouldn't think an elite player would need to do.
There's so much more to get into, but again, you know, in some ways, if you're, if you're just starting out, that can be the most exciting time because that's when you can get the greatest improvements. And yeah, it's, it's, it's so much fun. I'm looking at your website guys. If you want to take a look at what he has to offer, it's Paul Caffrey. That's C -A -F -F -R -E -Y .com. And you offer obviously speaking events. You have a virtual sales team training.
You have coaching available, you have books, you have that podcast. We talked a little bit about the podcast before we hit the record button. Man, the magic of a podcast is absolutely real. And I think by listening to people who are an expert in that sphere, so a sales rep out there who's trying to get better, just having it in their ear is going to be the quickest way to reprogram their brain so your subconscious takes hold of it. And during those sales meetings or in that preparation,
Paul M. Caffrey (37:30.478)
You start to listen to the experts and eventually become the expert because you adopt the information. So on this website, guys, take a look at what he has to offer. And so real quick, if you could kind of summarize that coaching or virtual training, what do you offer to these individuals? Yeah, so, uh, so I, I have keynote speak on stage, um, and that is helping sales teams become elite performers. The master classes are a little bit more focused, so it's SaaS sales end to end.
And then we focus on mastering your discovery, which we touched on a little bit at the beginning, making sure that your demos are on point, because most people offer really boring, terrible demos. How do you turn that around and make them really compelling? And then going into how do you provide your solution? How do you actually run the negotiation? How do you maintain revenue and lean on value as opposed to just discount, discount, discount and hope for the best? And those master classes.
give you the questions, give you the frameworks and give you everything that you need to actually deploy that straight away. So yeah, and there are a lot of fun actually. There are smaller groups as well, which can be nice. They're interactive. The speaking is great, but the masterclass are great fun. So ideal for sales leaders looking to make an impact. So you have a live virtual sales team at training masterclass. For example, if I wanted to train my team a little bit more about selling a SaaS, you would be able to teach? Yeah, we do a 90 minute session.
Um, we look at customizing a bit of what, what is most important for your team. And then we have a workbook, which we create. And so then the person can walk away and actually take action immediately. Cause I think that's a lot of a big gap in training is you get this great information, you get motivated, but then you don't know what to do. So you walk away with exactly what you need to do and actually execute that.
and the book guys, The Work Before the Work, The Hidden Habits, Elite Sales Professionals Used to Outperform the Competition. There's a sign off of a guy named Bob Berg, you might have heard of him, he is the bestselling author of the Go Giver series. Many people in the million dollar circle always talk about the Go Giver, so I don't know how you got his name to be associated with your book, but that is an awesome testimonial, dude. Really well done. Bob's a great guy, yeah.
Paul M. Caffrey (39:49.486)
Wow. Okay guys, pick up his book, The Hidden Habits, the lead for sales professionals used to outperform the competition, paulcaffrey .com. Is there a social media channel that you're on? You're more active than, you know, are you more active on X or LinkedIn or Facebook? Most active on LinkedIn. So LinkedIn, Paul Caffrey, you'll find me there. And then just one more thing. If you want to score yourself against the hidden habits, if you go to workbeforethework .com forward slash assessment,
There is a short quiz that you can fill out and it will let you know how you score and then give you customized advice on how to improve certain areas that you can actually take away and use. For me, all about actionable advice that you can use today. So yeah, check it out. Nice. I'm going to check that out. I would love to see where I stand when it comes to this, right? I've been in sales for how many years? I want to see if I line up with the elites. We'll see.
Anyways, guys, look up his book and get in touch with him if you want some live sales training. And I really appreciate you being here, Paul. It's been an honor to talk with you, man. Mike really enjoyed it. Thanks so much for having me on. I've interviewed many people. You have one of the nicest backgrounds with the lighting and the microphone. So you're onto something there. And I appreciate you giving us some wisdom and I really want to show what my, what you offer to my team. We'll see if we can work something out. So remember guys.
A million dollar book will lead to a million dollar life right on.
