Paul M. Caffrey (00:01.07)
And as I mentioned, I'm joined by Rick Denley. Rick, how you doing?
Rick Denley (00:04.638)
Terrific today, Paul. Thanks for having me on.
Paul M. Caffrey (00:07.15)
I'm delighted that you came on. We share some mutual friends. I'm very excited about this conversation. And when we were getting ready, we were speaking a bit about the importance of change and we quickly stopped that and they jumped on. So let's dive. Let's start there.
Rick Denley (00:23.326)
Well, I appreciate that. You know, everything has changed and it's one of the constants in the world right now. There's really only three, aren't there? We've got death and taxes and I can't do much about either of those with death and my accountant looks after my taxes for me. But the third thing we can look after Paul is change. And it's not enough nowadays. You know, we're told that we should like change. We should embrace change, but we don't.
The human brain doesn't want to change. It's an old reptilian brain, thousands of years old, and it wants to do things the same way. If you do things the same way, especially in our new sales world, you're going to become a dinosaur. You know what, Paul? You're going to end up like this guy here. And that's not what we want to do, is it? So change is vitally important. And the most important thing is not just to embrace change, but it's to lead change and lead the change that you want to see.
Paul M. Caffrey (01:06.862)
Oh.
Rick Denley (01:18.75)
biggest reason people don't change is fear. That's why in my book, Reinvent Yourself, we address fear in the very first chapter. How to harness fear energy to punch through any barriers that you're seeing. Then once we begin to embrace change and lead the change that we want to see, everything grows for us. Nobody and no organization can grow without change.
Paul M. Caffrey (01:44.142)
Yeah, it's so key. And I always find it so interesting that salespeople, effectively what we're doing is we are selling change. We are putting forward a different, better, more efficient way, whatever insert that is, to change and to improve. But a lot of the times, our human nature kicks in and we don't like to change. And we've done it this way. It's worked well for us. So Rick, when...
should somebody actually consider changing what they're doing or how would they look at themselves?
Rick Denley (02:14.782)
the time. All the time ongoing. As soon as you're very comfortable, you're in trouble right away. The skills and tools that made you successful to this day are the ones that will make you obsolete in the future. You need to be constantly changing and upgrading whatever you're doing, your sales process, because the buying process and the buyers have changed. Paul, did you know that by the end of 2024,
Two -thirds of the decision -makers are going to be millennials. And for some of us older ones, you'd think that would scare the heck out of us. But it doesn't, because we need to change our style of selling and understand the different generations we're dealing with, and as well, the different personality styles. So change is ongoing, and it's something that we need to become accustomed to and love do.
Paul M. Caffrey (02:50.574)
Yeah.
Paul M. Caffrey (03:08.43)
Yeah, it's really key looking at that all the time, I think is so important because even if you're in a role six, 12, 18 months, I do find it's very easy to respond to the objections in the same way that work last quarter or the quarter before and to deliver your demos or your presentations in a similar fashion where you've had success. However, the challenges that we face do the market changes faster than that.
We're seeing I'm seeing a lot of the big change now is it's no longer status quo and competitor. There's decision makers who are afraid of making the wrong decision and they can maybe kick it out another month or another quarter and stretch that out. So even if you're on a great sales cycle, you can still end up in a bit of trouble. I think the jolt effect really addresses that quite well. So my question for you is. What are top salespeople doing right now, Rick?
Rick Denley (03:54.558)
Yes.
Rick Denley (04:00.318)
Well, that's a great question, Paul. And today I want to share with you five things that top salespeople are exhibiting. There's several key behaviors and practices that set them apart. You know, whether you are a aspiring salespeople or you're looking to enhance your existing sales skills and you've been at it for many decades. Number one, we need to have an ownership mindset. Elite salespeople approach their goals with total ownership mindset.
They take responsibility for the outcomes even when external factors are at play. You know, you have to look at it like it's your company. That if you didn't go out and earn that revenue that week, you wouldn't get fed. That is the really eat what you kill type of mentality that we have to have. So they have that type of focus. Second thing, industry knowledge. There's so much available knowledge out there that we need to study and learn.
And then we have a strong point of view about what our clients' challenges are and problems, and then figure out how we're solving them. That's our job. I used to love problems. As a salesperson, bring me your problem because if I solve it, I have you as a client, right? And that type of industry expertise leads to confidence for salespeople. People want to buy from a confident person that understands their issues. And of course that leads to trust. And we know that nobody
buys from somebody else unless they trust them. No like trust. How can we get to that trust factor sooner? Which dovetails into the third thing I wanna share today, Paul, which is relationship building. Modern salespeople focus on building ongoing relationships. And how do we do that with the trust factor? Authentic, transparent type of communication is key.
It's not a bunch of bells and whistles and things like that. And yes, technology, you know, still exists for it, but it's not just about going in and being aggressive and closing the sale. It's about building the relationship so the person is comfortable purchasing from you. That's so vitally important. Paul, can I share the fourth thing with our viewers today? It's that adaptability piece. Successful salespeople anticipate the future and then they look at how they can collaborate with others. If you're selling,
Paul M. Caffrey (06:11.47)
Please, please do.
Rick Denley (06:23.166)
from being on an island somewhere still, you're doing it wrong. I'll be honest, we need to collaborate. Look, I'm a GenXer, right? We do everything ourselves. Get out of the way, I'll get it done. That's how I was trained and taught. But that's not how successful salespeople work today. You need to look to collaborate with others, others in your client organization, build a team around you and harness team selling. That's a great thing to do now instead of going it alone.
Okay? Leverage digital channels, harness data, and adapt to the changing circumstances. In fact, shortly after this, I want to talk to you about generative AI, which a lot of people want to shy away with. The fifth and final thing I'll share with you today is people skills. Excellent small talk and emotional intelligence is still key to selling. Understanding yourself as a salesperson and who you're selling to. Understanding the four
personality style so you understand how to approach and sell to each individual is vitally important. You don't have to be a master at disc profiling, but you really should understand the different types and build rapport and connect with people on a different level. Remember, excellence in sales isn't just about closing deals. It's about understanding clients, building trust, and continuously improving your skill set.
That's what needs to happen nowadays for the successful salespeople.
Paul M. Caffrey (07:56.494)
There you go, Rick. I didn't want to interrupt anything you were saying there because every single point I thought was so valid. I was like, yeah, I agree with that like this. But however, there are a few I'd like to dig a little bit deeper into. So when we talk about building relationships. How do you recommend sales professionals build relationships with their prospective clients and with their current clients today?
Rick Denley (08:05.534)
Thanks, bye.
Rick Denley (08:09.438)
Tell me. Sure.
Rick Denley (08:21.982)
Take it beyond business. Take it to a personal level. And some people say, well, I can't delve into the personal with people. Yes, you can. You know, one of the things that we'll find, and I share this in one of my keynotes on leadership, is the importance for leaders and salespeople to have empathy. You know, when I talk about courageous leadership, it's not the, you know, fist pounding that we might think of when I talk about courage. It's having the courage to be empathetic towards people.
to have real feelings for what they're going through and understanding it. I guarantee you everybody's going through something right now. We might not know what it is. And we have to be empathetic to that, especially in the business world and understand their challenges. Once we can connect on that level, that I'm not just here to sell you a bag of goods, I'm here to help you solve a problem and I really care, and I do, that changes everything.
Paul M. Caffrey (09:16.974)
Yeah, I think it's so key that if you if you lean into the well, the problem that the person has and actually are looking at genuine ways to help them solve it, sometimes it's not your solution or put you in a position to turn around and go, I'm not sure if this is for you. What are you thinking at this point? And you can turn the tables and get them to highlight the areas of why they think actually this is a way to go. Hard to do because, you know, you're not putting yourself at risk.
where you are testing the deal, particularly at early stages, which I do think is super important to do because we need to know if this is actually really going to help or if it's not from the I guess the word where I find is very useful in delving into, let's say, you know, personal lives or, you know, for all people at the end of the day. So for me, if I'm taking notes with somebody.
Rick Denley (09:48.382)
Absolutely.
Rick Denley (09:53.534)
Right. Agreed.
Paul M. Caffrey (10:06.766)
Yes, I'll have my my notes on the solution and the possible solution there. I'll have my notes on the wider business or the decision makers think that come up. But I'll also keep a one on personal. So if somebody mentions their kids or if they're going on a trip or whatever that might be, it means that at the very least I can refer back to that. I don't try to enter the CRM, but I do keep it in a in a files tab and I use one note and it is there for me to refer to. So.
Rick Denley (10:14.046)
And then...
Thanks. Cheers.
Rick Denley (10:31.006)
And there's nothing wrong with that. I love that Paul. And you're not being disingenuous here if you're really caring about the individual. And the fact that you can have many connections with them on different levels beyond just the business is very important. At the end of the day, people buy from people still, thank goodness. And you can't change that, but you can embrace it and make sure that that person wants to buy from you. Nobody buys from somebody they don't like.
whether you're out buying a car or whether you're buying an industrial automation system or whatever widget, people buy from people they like. If they don't like you, they're going to take every effort they can to purchase it from somebody else that they do like. So having those connections is very important, but it also shows that you care. And, you know, in my background, I have many different things that I can connect with people on different levels. I'm a gear head, so I love cars. So on occasion, somebody else is a big car person, and that's wonderful for me to connect, maybe on the sporting end.
You know that I do the philanthropy with the amateur boxing. So raising funds and awareness for cancer is something that I do. There's going to be some sort of connection on a different level. In fact, we just ran a fundraising event to raise funds for the, for the lymphomic society, which my partner Laura looks after. And I had four of my top clients there that bought seats and tables to come to that event. Nothing to do with business.
because that's how our relationship has gotten engaged at all different levels. So yeah, relationships count.
Paul M. Caffrey (12:05.742)
Yeah, absolutely. And I guess one other thing is if you can get to WhatsApp text message or get to that level of communication as well, it makes it easier to maintain that relationship going beyond. I've got clients 10 years ago and I can still send them a WhatsApp message now and just check in and have a chat with them. So maintaining that is super, super important. The piece about building the team. I know people struggle a little bit with this in sales because we want to be seen as
Rick Denley (12:31.55)
Yeah.
Paul M. Caffrey (12:34.862)
We know what we're doing. We've done this before. We're going to be able to take this to the close. How do you recommend people put that disarm themselves so they can actually build those teams and get help?
Rick Denley (12:40.158)
Mm -hmm.
Rick Denley (12:47.966)
Well, first off, it's all about ego. And as one of my good fighting boxing friends mentioned to me during our training said, your ego is not your amigo. And they're so right. We've got to sit that ego aside and realize that working collaboratively, we can get so much more done. And it's not taking away from your skillset whatsoever. It's building it up. Listen, I'm going to share this Modern Sales Leadership by Steve Knapp and Rob Taylor. This is a great book. If...
Up and coming sales leaders are looking for a book. Steve and Rob talk about a few things here. They talk about how to lead a team. They talk about leadership versus management, which of course is vision and coaching versus procedure and control. So that's the way that we build that team and become part of it and then create a successful culture of accountability, support and collaboration. You know, get involved, let that guard down.
and do what I call team selling. If you've got an issue, come in, throw it on the table for others to have a look at that are going to support you and say, well, did you think of trying it this way? What about that? Would that work? You're still the point person. You're still going to receive the sale, but you're working as a team. Sales can be taken from an individual sport. And I do a lot of cycling and I do the fighting to support cancer research and such. Those are individual sports to a large part, but I also love playing hockey.
or football or soccer. Those are team sports as well. There's different ways to achieve the goal. Move from the individual solo salesperson into the team player. Your sales will increase, your knowledge will increase, and the collaboration helps.
Paul M. Caffrey (14:30.638)
Yeah, I think I think that's great advice, Rick. And even just if it's somebody on your team or somebody in the company, or maybe it's even someone who's from a different organization that you know, and you're friends with, challenge them about the deal, where you're up to, where you're thinking of going with it and asking, what would you do? What do you think I'm missing? It is a super thing. I mean, if you're in the office, jump into a meeting room, jump on a whiteboard, pencil it out, or I would say pencil it out, whiteboard it out.
Rick Denley (14:48.702)
Thanks.
Paul M. Caffrey (14:58.542)
and see where you go. And you can get some great advice. Now, I guess in preparing for this conversation, I saw that you highlight the fact that, well, Harvard Business Review have highlighted, strong leadership is really lacking. What do you put that down to?
Rick Denley (15:18.078)
Well, again, it comes back to the change. Leadership is not evolving the way that it needs to as well. You know, leadership is really challenged right now. Look, it's been a big ask for leaders over the last four or five years. You know, I hate mentioning it, but through the pandemic, hybrid work environments, right? The mass resignation that went on. These are all challenges for leaders outside of just focusing on making the sales numbers alone. So we really need to start focusing on people.
It's people that grow companies, Paul, and great leaders, courageous leaders that grow people. Focus on the people, grow them, and then the company grows. And how do we grow them? You bring value to them. You look at bringing the right and up -to -date skills, tools, and knowledge. That's our role. And then how do we get the best out of them? We're not the smartest in the room as leaders, and you don't have to be. You have to be able to draw out the best in people, set them on a career path,
which aligns with their passion and then remove barriers and get out of their way. That's where leadership has really changed for a lot of people. It's not about control. It's about empowerment. How do we empower the people that are working for us? You hire good people, now how do you bring that out in them? Those are the keys right now. You know, there's three key things that leaders are doing. They need to be sure that they're aligning passion with the company purpose for individuals.
That's one of the biggest ones. They need to be sure that they're doing it on a humane basis and that they're being empathetic to those people and understanding their challenges. And finally, reignite their fire at times. Everybody needs a little of that. That's what good coaches and leaders do, is ignite that team moving forward. So leadership has changed as well.
Paul M. Caffrey (17:03.374)
And you mentioned tools. There's one very obvious tool out there. Well, Gen .A .I. A lot of salespeople I speak with are not using it or have maybe dabbled in it, which is surprising to me every single day. What do you recommend people do when it comes to Gen .A .I.?
Rick Denley (17:20.958)
Yeah, absolutely.
You know, when we look at reports that are out right now, whether it be Harvard Business Review, Forbes Magazine, McKinsey, they all talk about how important it is to understand the changes and how important it can be to know about gen AI. You know, it's making waves in the sales world too. Empowering professionals to enhance their efficiencies and effectiveness. So let me talk about a few ways that it's doing that for us. Number one is tailored.
customer emails and solutions. Okay, there's software program out there by Microsoft called VivaSales application. It's embedded with generative AI and it assists salespeople and sales leaders in drafting personal emails. Now personal to the industry, to the person, it ensures that the communication resonates with the individual. It's not a canned approach. If you're using a templated,
email on your outbound email prospecting, which by the way, email prospecting is still one of the most significant and impactful ways to gain recognition and get potential clients. You need to customize it. You can't have some generic one pumping out there anymore. You need to have something tied in with their industry, tied in with their company, and Gen .ai can do that for you very simply. So check out VivaSales tool. That's one.
Second one is insights and recommendations. Generative AI provides valuable insights for customer prospects right away. So when you're doing your research, which you should when you're prospecting, it shouldn't just be a shotgun approach. You should be very specific. These are the top 10 accounts that I'm going to go after. Then make it specific. It helps sales professionals understand that company's needs and their pain points. Additionally, it generates recommendations for tailored solutions.
Rick Denley (19:16.446)
It's all there for you right away in the right language to capture that potential client. Paul, is that making sense for us?
Paul M. Caffrey (19:24.11)
Yeah, look, absolutely. It's what it comes down to is, I suppose, personalisation and prospecting is becoming table stakes because of the technology that you're mentioning. The speed that you're doing things is is very, very important as well. So from note taking to even your your follow up, I mean, you can like you can dictate to Gen .A .I.
Rick Denley (19:34.27)
Right.
Paul M. Caffrey (19:48.558)
and then it will format and pull together an email where you might only have to make one or two little corrections before it gets sent. And again, it's speed, speed, speed. Please.
Rick Denley (19:54.91)
Absolutely. Can I share one more on the prospecting front? Prospecting and research. Generative AI can assist in identifying potential leads and researching their backgrounds. It can do that for you. It streamlines the process of finding relevant prospects and understands those pain points that they have. So you're narrowing your search now to potential clients that are a good fit for your organization solution.
So you're not battling that right from the start. And then again, it creates that personal outreach, okay, to help salespeople reach out to potential clients with personalized messages, especially on email. And that makes a world of difference. You know, it just makes a world of difference. Gonna share this book with you here, Fanatical Prospecting by, you know, our friend Jeb Blunt. If you don't know Jeb, you're too. Yeah, brilliant chapter in here about email prospecting.
Paul M. Caffrey (20:45.678)
Yeah, yeah, I've got a copy there behind me. It's great. Great book.
Rick Denley (20:53.15)
right to the fact of what subject lines will entice potential clients to open your email. And finally, at the end of it, the CTA, the call to action, which you want people to take, whether it's visiting your website, setting up a discovery meeting, which Paul, you did for me on my website. It worked out really well for us. So this is a great book on the front of prospecting that our viewers should be reading.
Paul M. Caffrey (21:18.414)
Yeah. And I guess the other side of it is, I mean, you can teach AI, right? You can actually have, right? These are subject lines, do variations of this. Of course, make the first line, write it in this style. Someone said they're saying, hi, such and such. And then how are you? It's a, I reckon we can do X, Y, Z for you, Bob, if you're, and whatever your value prop is. So there's a whole lot of ways. So it's all about speed, speed, speed. For me, I think it's even worth just investing in that subscription and paying out of your pocket, you know, if your company won't, because it's, you know,
Rick Denley (21:23.902)
Oh yeah.
Rick Denley (21:45.406)
Yeah.
Paul M. Caffrey (21:47.822)
It's pennies compared to what you can get back on it.
Rick Denley (21:48.511)
Yeah, it's a tool that we need to learn. And some people shy away from it. Remember, while generative AI offers immense potential, it's essentially to strike a balance between automating and genuine human interaction. Sales professionals should use AI as a tool to enhance their efforts, not replace it. And for leaders, this is essential. When you start introducing AI tools, make sure that your staff, your team members understand,
This is not to replace them. This is to enhance them. You know, I'm a big sports guy and a big hockey guy over here in Canada. And as we head towards the playoffs, we look at the players and how well they're doing. Some of the tools they use now in their craft are these new composite sticks. It costs four or $500 each. Without that stick, they would be falling behind. The stick doesn't replace the player. It enhances their existing skillset. And that's what we're looking to do.
with AI as leaders.
Paul M. Caffrey (22:47.726)
Yeah, it's so, so true. And even to the point of the other analogy, which is quite fascinating, you might have seen it doing the rounds on LinkedIn is Steve Jobs talking about AI 20 plus years ago, and he's describing, you know, the fastest person on the planet will be beaten by anyone else who's cycling the bike. So why not give yourself that advantage?
Rick Denley (23:02.11)
Who I am.
Paul M. Caffrey (23:10.99)
So when it comes, one of the things I thought was quite interesting that jumped out at me as well when I was researching was looking at leadership is the importance of DEI. I'd like to maybe go down that a little bit more and understand, well, how can we actually bring that into an organization? How can we make that happen?
Rick Denley (23:31.678)
It's a very important point right now. And when we look at diversity, equity, and inclusion, Paul, we need to understand that we need to look at how we implement that with our people. First off, studies have proven over the last few years that a more diverse team, whether it be in sales or any type of division in an organization, is more successful. And companies that get it right in implementing DEI grow.
grow faster and grow stronger and more stable than others that don't. The equity piece, look, we're looking at making sure that everybody has an equal opportunity to voice their concern. And that's when we start talking about that security and type of feeling that people have that they can state their opinion within the organization. It's very important. And then we've got the D, the E, and then the I.
diversity, equity, and inclusion. Are we including everybody? You know, some people don't have the same type of strong voice, so there's other ways that they can provide their opinion. And it's very important to include them in helping the company grow. Companies need to be looking at DEI and making sure that they're implementing it correctly. That's another piece of courageous leadership.
Paul M. Caffrey (24:50.958)
Yeah, it's it's so, so important to embrace it because of all the factors that that you've mentioned. Jumping back on to courageous leadership, then maybe going into that and a little bit more depth.
Where can someone, how should someone start if they want to be a courageous leader? Because there's a lot of people who are stepping into leadership for the first time and they've got a deliverer, they've got responsibilities to deliver numbers, they're managing people. But how can they also be courageous?
Rick Denley (25:20.35)
Night.
Rick Denley (25:25.278)
Well, the first thing you have to do surprisingly is show that you are human as well. I'll tell you a little story. Back during the teenage years of one of my son, he was struggling and there was a lot of hospital stays for him. And as a parent, it was very challenging and we had difficult times and there was worry and exhaustion. And there were times where I would spend the entire night in that cold steel hospital chair, bedside to my son.
making sure that he was okay. Morning would come and the kid's mom would relieve me. I'd go into the washroom, splash some water on my face, literally straighten my tie and go into work. I didn't let anybody know what was going on whatsoever. I would come into work as if nothing was happening, as if my entire life was on track and everything was perfect. That's actually a mistake. First thing we need to do as leaders is let people know we're human too. We have challenges. Things are going on in our life.
That allows them to also share with you and create a comfortable space. You need to come to work as your authentic self. That doesn't mean you don't give it your all, regardless of what's going on in your other part of your life, but it means that you're human. So first off, leaders need to realize you don't need to be something that you're not or put on a facade. That just sets up failure for everybody else in the organization doing the same thing.
and that won't have them producing and feeling that they've got a safe space to come to and work through. Paul, how's that sound? Does that make sense?
Paul M. Caffrey (26:59.982)
Yeah, it does make sense. And I can relate to that, particularly when you've got young children in hospital. One parent has to stay the whole time. So that journey you're speaking about, I've done that. I opted not to share. I didn't let anybody know. So it's refreshing to know that. Yeah, I remember looking back and thinking I probably should have been telling people what was going on.
Rick Denley (27:13.758)
Yeah.
Rick Denley (27:22.75)
Yeah, you know, I've got challenges too, people.
Paul M. Caffrey (27:26.99)
But yeah, I mean, again, it's kind of reminds me that great leadership book, multipliers, you know, multiplier, diminisher. If you're the hero, if you're the smartest person, if you're doing everything and everybody else is subservient to you, that's not a good long term strategy for a team. You might hit a short term number or get a little bit of success early on, but it's not going to have longevity. So, again, being humble enough to admit when things are tough for you and sharing that with your team.
again, gives them that I suppose that psychological safety that they can do the same and that you're not going they're not going to have fear that I'm in trouble here if they know that something is going on. My number could be down this quarter, but they'll actually open up and probably perform that bit better because you'd be able to support them the way they need support as opposed to just treating everybody the same, which which doesn't really work. You know, and.
Rick Denley (28:11.23)
Yeah, and it doesn't make people weak. This is a problem that we see. Well, you know, it's going through a lot of this and so on. He's weak, not weak, not weak at all. In fact, that's a courageous part to be able to share that with others. Listen, at the end of the day, what's a leader's job? It's to attract, retain and fully engage top talent so that you can get to the goals of your organization. How do you do it? By aligning the passions and goals of the individual in their career.
That's what leadership is about right now. As you said, it's not coming in the room having all the answers. Why do you have a team if you have all the answers? I used to decades ago come into a meeting knowing the outcome and drive towards it because I was the smartest one in the room, but I wasn't. And that's leadership of the past. So adapting and changing to today's leadership, especially with the different up and coming generations. You think millennials and Gen Zs are really going to accept that type of top down hierarchy leadership?
not whatsoever. So then you're going to lose them and you're not going to have the top talent from the industry attracted into your organization.
Paul M. Caffrey (29:16.238)
And that's so crucial because it is hard to get top talent. I mean, there's a lot of challenges and a lot of different markets going on, but employment is a pretty high level. So if you want to find good people, the best people, it's probably one of the more difficult times to be doing that. Even with all the layoffs and everything else that's going on, it's still, still high levels of employment. But I guess changing track a little bit. I know a few people have done white collar boxing. I haven't done it myself. You.
Rick Denley (29:22.558)
Yeah.
Rick Denley (29:44.83)
Yeah.
Paul M. Caffrey (29:45.294)
are undefeated. How have you managed that?
Rick Denley (29:49.502)
Well, it's been an interesting journey and it's something that I took on because a friend of mine came to me and I was changing a little bit of my workout habits and I started some Muay Thai and he came to me and said, you know what, there's this great event and you'd be perfect for it. And perfect meaning not that I'm gonna win the fight. It was about raising funds and awareness for the Princess Margaret Hospital here in Toronto, which is one of the top five hospitals in the world for cancer.
research and solutions and such. So I said, yeah, I was looking for something philanthropic as well as physical. So it really fit the bill well. So we trained for eight months and really had a great team of coaches and things. And then we had a Vegas style event, which raised over a million dollars that night. Brilliant event. They do this each year. So that's where the onus goes and the success really happened at the end of the day.
Paul M. Caffrey (30:36.27)
Congratulations.
Rick Denley (30:45.31)
But what was interesting for me is that I got an opportunity to learn a lot about myself and also look at different styles of leadership and coaching from the coaches that were involved with us and the team dynamic. I got a great opportunity to be there and there were three different generations on our team of 10, if you can imagine. And that was really brilliant to see how everybody accepted things differently and how.
Paul M. Caffrey (31:05.678)
Yeah.
Rick Denley (31:11.582)
mentoring and more importantly, reverse mentoring came into play. You think usually the oldest, most gray hairs in the room, in the room, whatever, would have the most experience and be the mentor, but it's not. And that's where different generations and good leaders put in place mentoring and reverse mentoring type of structure so that we can learn from each other. Different generations up and down and across and diversity as well.
Paul M. Caffrey (31:37.038)
Yeah.
Rick Denley (31:38.91)
and that really showed itself well. So there were some great learnings in that for me as well and it was all towards a good cause.
Paul M. Caffrey (31:45.07)
Oh, fantastic. And eight months of training. Fair play. I've heard of people doing six weeks. So now I can see how you did so well. Super fit.
Rick Denley (31:50.75)
Oh, wow. No, it was a challenge and that really challenged me physically as well as mentally for that length of time before stepping in the ring. So great event for great cause.
Paul M. Caffrey (31:57.55)
Mm.
Paul M. Caffrey (32:03.438)
Yeah, absolutely. And congratulations on everything that was raised. And that touches so many people's lives, unfortunately. So anything that can battle that is great. One thing you mentioned when we were chatting before we got started is you're an in -demand leadership keynote speaker. We're speaking in Canada, North America, or even some globally global gigs as well. However, you mentioned that you still also prospect as well. And I'd like to maybe delve a little bit into that.
Rick Denley (32:11.87)
Yes.
Rick Denley (32:22.494)
Hmm.
Rick Denley (32:34.142)
Yeah, you know, I like to tell people, and especially at technical talks that we have, I'm actually a recovering engineer. So the very first formal education I had was in engineering. I got out and I was engineering in the field probably a year and a half, 18, 20 months or so, until I started liking what these individuals were bringing me from a technology side in the sales and business world. And I thought, boy, I really like that. And so I quickly moved into that type of area.
And really that was a large part of my career. And then taking those several decades working in the automation industry and now dovetailing it into speaking and really enjoying the speaking circuit because I feel I can have a larger impact on more people that way. And that's really something that I enjoy doing now globally from stages everywhere and some consulting as well.
Paul M. Caffrey (33:21.23)
So true. Yeah.
Paul M. Caffrey (33:29.71)
Yeah, that's, um, Oh, it's a big, it's a big piece. Yeah.
Rick Denley (33:32.926)
But I want to, I'm sorry, I want to get back to your point. You asked me about the prospecting piece. I need to consistently prospect myself. I'm a solo premier. And you know, although you can use the different tools and things like that, sales people need to prospect. Whether you're in real estate, whether you're selling automation equipment, staying in the forefront of prospecting is a skillset that everybody needs to have. So you need to consistently sharpen your skills on that. It's the only way that you can bring in business. I'm fortunate that I have.
Speaker's Bureau with me and agents that helped me land some of the events that I speak on stages with but I still promote myself and build my own brand on a regular basis, which as you said Paul surprises you and some others, but there's nobody better than yourself. I always speak to salespeople and say you want to be your own face of your brand and you want to build that brand yourself. You want to be the absolute best in the industry so that when they think of setting up a panel,
and they've got all these beautiful chairs on stage and they want to speak to the experts in the industry. You want to be known as one of those, as being the best in your industry at what you do.
Paul M. Caffrey (34:39.918)
Yeah, it's so, so key. And what you might find is, yeah, inbound business can sometimes be, well, generally is easier to close in some respects, because there's an interest, there's a pain that are already sold somewhat. However, the really big deals, the ones that you're going to remember in years to come, typically they're the ones that you go out and find. And often they're with, you know, it could be, you know, certain events or it could be with certain companies.
Rick Denley (34:52.606)
Right.
Paul M. Caffrey (35:07.214)
that are probably gonna be successful whether you go out and help or not. You're looking to make them more successful, but they'll be just fine without you. So if you just sit by and let them go and do their thing, they'll do that and you'll be left behind. So with that in mind, we're gonna jump in and go quick fire through some questions now. I know there's gonna be some great answers coming. So Rick, no pressure. What is your number one prospecting tip?
Rick Denley (35:20.766)
Yeah.
Rick Denley (35:24.446)
All right.
Rick Denley (35:35.358)
Prospecting tip is similar to what I mentioned earlier, is customize your outreach. Don't make it generic, customize it. Take the time to customize and target who you're going after. Make sure you know who your ideal customer is. If I ask people this, they should be able to answer it as salespeople. My ideal customer is dot, dot, dot, dot, then customize your outreach to them.
Paul M. Caffrey (36:02.062)
I really like that. What is your number one sales tip?
Rick Denley (36:05.086)
Number one sales tip, build relationships. Build and harness existing relationships and then bridge into new relationships. If you're not asking successful clients of yours that you're dealing with for a referral, for a testimonial, hey, who else could be utilizing my services? You're missing out. You need to be able to harness that. Don't let it go, you did all the work, you're doing great for these clients. Bridge that into new clients.
Paul M. Caffrey (36:34.542)
Yeah, really like that. And one thing a lot of people miss is the best time to make that initial ask is just when you've closed the business with that person and knowing a few people they're connected with that you want them to connect you with. But rather than jump into that, if somebody is working in a company and they're looking to get promoted, whether they want to go a higher level individual contributor or maybe they want to get promoted into leadership, what is your number one tip to get promoted?
Rick Denley (36:47.166)
Right.
Rick Denley (36:55.934)
Good. Yeah.
Rick Denley (37:01.31)
start doing the role that you want to be promoted to. Start showing that you have the capabilities for it. Nobody's expecting you to be great at it right away. It should be a reach when we're moving up into our career goals. First off, make it known, this is what I want to do. And as good leaders, you should be asking them, how can you help me get there? That's a leader's job as well, is to align your career path with what you want it to be. That's how we keep people and not lose them.
is understand what their career path is and keep fulfilling that with them. Ask your leadership for that and then start acting in that role right away to show the capabilities. If nothing else, show that that's where you want to be. You're not satisfied where you are. You want to grow into this role. Dress like it, walk like it, talk like it, do the role ahead.
Paul M. Caffrey (37:50.702)
really like that. You've mentioned a couple of books already. Is there any other books that you recommend people check out to get better at selling?
Rick Denley (37:59.87)
Absolutely. And thank you for asking me. It's funny because when you look at the books that I have, you'll see all these little sticky tabs in them because I can't read one book at a time. I pick one up, I put it down, I pick up another, that's just my makeup. So this one here I wanna share with you is Bernadette McClellan's book, and Shift and Disrupt. I love the title to start with. In an era of ever -changing buyer expectations, this book will teach you how to...
stop selling widgets and start selling wisdom. Yeah, I read that right from the back. But that's what this book's about. It's a recent book. It's a great release by here. So if you haven't read that one, get on that one. And then the final book I want to share with you is the B2B Sales Top Tips Guidebook. And this is by Jim Irving and friends. I happen to be one of the friends. So I wrote a chapter in here along with other great sales leaders like Patrick Tinney that talks about negotiating.
Okay, we've got Larry Levine on here that talks about integrity with his selling from the heart. Steve Knapp's in here, I mentioned his book earlier, it talks about selling fixes. The chapter I think you should read first, and you can jump around this book for anybody that's in B2B sales or leadership, is that I'd like you to read chapter 18, which is Simon Hares, one of our best sales trainers in the world right now. And he talks about objection handling.
And handling objections is one of the most important skills that a salesperson can have. How you can bring those objections and turn them towards closing more sales. So Simon Harris writes a great chapter there. So there's your reading recommendations, Paul.
Paul M. Caffrey (39:41.166)
Look, some some great shows there. And actually episode 15 had Simon Harris on and he dropped so much knowledge when it came to selling. It was immense. So, yeah, absolutely. OK, with with all that in mind, when we think about preparation, what does doing the work before the work look like in your world?
Rick Denley (39:50.206)
It was fantastic.
Right.
Rick Denley (40:03.358)
It's that background, information and checks, before I even reach out for an event or a keynote that I want to be part of. If I see an organization that I can bring value to and at the end of the day, isn't that what sales is all about, bringing value? Do the background work. There's no reason why you should ask, I call them silly questions. Like, well, tell me more about what you do here. You know, what is your company looking to do in the future? Those are silly questions. Know the industry, know the challenges.
and bring that and they'll go, this person's done their research. I respect that right away. So I'm already partially of the way getting their trust because they're respecting the work that I'm doing. Do the background work, put in the effort.
Paul M. Caffrey (40:44.078)
Great, really like that, Rick. And when it comes to people trying to find you, obviously there's your book, Reinvent Yourself, but how can people find out more?
Rick Denley (40:52.573)
Yes. The book can be bought on Amazon. And if they'd like to know more, I put together some more information on generative AI and some of the things that organizations and sales leaders are using it for right now. And also more on the sales tips that successful salespeople are using in the areas of skills, tools, and knowledge up on my website. So that's www .rickdenley .com.
There's a lot of information there for you. You can look at some of these great podcasts and also flip over to the information center and read some more. There's some great apps on there that people can be using in websites to really harness the technology that's out there to become better at their task. So check out my website.
Paul M. Caffrey (41:40.398)
Well, Rick, thanks so much for joining us. I look forward to the next time we speak.
Rick Denley (41:45.31)
Paul, thanks so much for having me on and allowing me to share with your great viewers.
