Paul M. Caffrey (00:01.358)
Hello, and I'm delighted to be joined by Tara Rule the busy to balance psychology coach who helps busy professionals and leaders succeed without sacrifice. Tara, how's it going? How are you?
Tara Rule (00:17.047)
You're doing very well, thank you, very good.
Paul M. Caffrey (00:19.822)
Great to see you again. It's been a long time since we met and today is quite a big day.
Tara Rule (00:26.583)
It is, it is book launch day. Seriously, I am very, very excited. I have a book that is out today called Stop Apologizing, and it's to help you to silence you in a critic, find your confidence, and stop saying sorry. So the fact that it's out is like very, very much a pinch me moment, definitely.
Paul M. Caffrey (00:47.726)
Well, congratulations, firstly, it's a great achievement to get a book out into the world. And secondly, it's a really brilliant book. I have to say I was privileged enough to get to have a pre read of it and I skim books. Transparent. That's what I will do with a book. And I was so impressed and enjoyed it so much that I'm now going back and reading through and working through the frameworks and some of the exercises of which there are quite a few to apply it. So.
Tara Rule (01:15.447)
Yep.
Paul M. Caffrey (01:18.19)
I guess a good place to start would be what made you decide to focus on apologizing for your first book?
Tara Rule (01:28.247)
Yeah, so it's interesting because I've got a couple of book ideas in my mind. The other one is around helping people to become better leaders. But the topic about stop apologizing, whenever I talk to people about it, the amount of people that would go, I need to read that book. It's like I'd have a bit about the the the be a better leader. There's a lot of people going, my boss needs to read that. But less so much going people go, I need that book and self identifying. But with the topic of stop apologizing.
I probably had the book idea in my head for maybe five or six years or so. And then I actually put a post out on LinkedIn a number of years ago, looking for somebody to speak on the topic of stop apologizing because I saw it so much working. I've worked in corporate for 18 years and I saw so many people apologize and I thought that was a topic that resonated with so many people. So I put a post out on LinkedIn saying, hey, I'm looking for a speaker and nobody was recommended.
And that really surprised me because I'm going, really? Nobody. I had quite a few saying that you could speak about imposter syndrome and different things, but not necessarily about stop apologizing. And I used to run a lot of workshops for the women's network where I used to work at Adobe. And yeah, just kind of, I mulled on it for years going, I need to find someone, I need to find somebody. And then one day it kind of dawned on me going, I'm going to have to write that myself. And actually rather than just do it as a workshop that could be delivered to maybe, you know,
30 to 50 people in a room, I went, how about I spread the word even further and write a book about it as well. So that's kind of why I started there.
Paul M. Caffrey (03:07.822)
I mean, great to get those signals that there is a need for it for sure. And I have to say the book made me feel uncomfortable. It felt like I was peering into my soul a little bit and uncovering some of the deep rooted reasons for success and maybe for how I've blocked success in certain areas. And it goes very, very deep.
Tara Rule (03:13.111)
Mm.
Paul M. Caffrey (03:35.47)
When you were writing the book, how did you draw the line for to go that far or versus holding things back?
Tara Rule (03:43.351)
Yeah, so I think there's lots of tips that we hear and I could have just written a book going here's the 10 things that you can do to stop apologizing but you're not actually going to do it unless you get to the root cause so I wanted a book that would actually make an impact.
and I believe that you'll only make the impact or you'll only see the impact if rather than just hearing something, I might do that, I might not do it, you kind of get down into, so why am I apologizing right now? And often I think people give an excuse going, you know, it's just a habit. But actually, even if it is a habit, often there's something deeper below it. And I know for me, I had a really, really successful career. I was very fortunate, I had a very successful career.
relatively kind of fast -tracked, but I had something kind of deep within me feeling like I wasn't good enough. And that feeling of not being good enough definitely held me back. And when I realised it, and I was kind of in my late 30s before I realised that I had this story that I was telling myself, it then unlocked so much more and I go, I wish I'd figured out earlier. Imagine if I'd have figured out 10 years earlier that I had this real kind of driver inside me of thinking I'm not good enough.
Imagine if I'd have realised that 10 years earlier, where would I be now? How would I have maybe not held myself back? So I think it's the element of going, I believe you need to dig a bit deeper if you actually want to have an impact.
Paul M. Caffrey (05:14.146)
And you really get into how you understand those habits of why you're apologizing. So those exercises are super useful. And it brings us on to what you call out in it, which is your beliefs are not facts. So what's your inner critic from stopping you from actually doing? With beliefs, what do you think is important for people to be mindful of? Because I know people will be listening to this and...
Tara Rule (05:30.199)
Hmm.
Paul M. Caffrey (05:44.046)
whatever they're doing, maybe they're in the gym doing something else. But how important is beliefs for pretty much everyone?
Tara Rule (05:51.831)
Yeah.
So beliefs drive so many of our actions. So understanding what we believe is important because otherwise we just go around believing things and taking action without really knowing why. And I help people to step back and realize what are those beliefs. And often our brain is kind of wired to the negative. Our brain is wired to keep us safe. So it looks for danger all the time. So my brain would much rather be telling myself and believing that I'm not good enough,
to keep me safe so that I don't fail, rather than believe that I am good enough and then maybe take more risks and do things differently and step into the unknown and stretch outside my comfort zone because my brain is like, whoa, that's scary. No, don't want to do that. So spending time figuring out what you believe will...
kind of result in your actions being different. But often people believe things like, and the amount of people that I coach, people often come up with the things, I believe I'm not good enough, I believe I have to be perfect, I believe I'm not clever enough, I believe others deserve things more, I believe I'm not worthy, I believe I don't deserve this, I believe I'm just lucky. They're all beliefs, and it's not true. It's not true that I'm not good enough, it's not true that you have to be perfect, it's not true that you're gonna be abandoned, it's not.
but we have a belief and those beliefs come from stories we tell ourselves, experiences we have, and things that we're told by other people. So our brain looks for the one bit of evidence and goes, there you go. But it's not necessarily true.
Paul M. Caffrey (07:29.806)
And most people don't pause and think of their belief to the level that you ask them to do. And, you know, as you're talking about that, there one thing that comes to mind, Tara, is, well, of course, for programs to be negative, because our brain developed in a time where the physical world was a lot more threatening. So, yeah, you probably shouldn't climb up on that tree or go onto that ledge, because if you aren't good enough to do that, the results could be catastrophic.
versus in a career perspective where it's not a physical risk put forward anymore. There is a lot of practical advice given in this book for sure. And one thing you say is, you know, don't say sorry for interrupting. And you do share some elegant ways that you can interrupt. And I'm sure people listening are thinking, well,
Tara Rule (08:05.047)
Hmm.
Paul M. Caffrey (08:23.374)
If I need to interrupt, how do I interrupt without actually apologizing?
Tara Rule (08:28.663)
Yeah. So I think, and it's so true, but we so often go, sorry to interrupt. But often we're not sorry to interrupt. We're interrupting for a reason. We've got a question or we want to clarify something or we want to go back to something. So yeah, I talk about elegant interruption and really as three steps that you take. So the first one is you say the person's name. So Paul, you say the name. It's that kind of, that's the smooth way to interrupt. Then you say what you're doing. So you say, I'm interrupting.
or I'd like to pause for a moment, you say what you're doing and then you give the reason why. So I'd like to clarify something or I have a question or can we just recap on what the actions are before we move on? So you say things, so putting it together, you go, Paul, I just wanted to pause for a moment so that we can be really clear on the actions before we move on. Much, much smoother and more assertive than going, sorry, sorry to interrupt. I just want to say.
So yeah, that's the way that I help people to elegantly interrupt rather than apologize for interrupting.
Paul M. Caffrey (09:32.75)
Interruptions are really key particularly when we're
working in sales and a lot of people here are founded their own business who are listening. They're in founder selling. There's a lot of account executives and salespeople listening and they will end up in conversations with prospects where we're here to discuss a certain topic and solve a certain problem. But then the conversation goes off in a different direction. So being able to confidently and elegantly interrupt and keep teams on track a little bit sooner than maybe spend them five minutes listening to a story that you know is not relevant and losing the time.
serve them and serve yourself, I think is super important. So having that framework, very, very useful. And one thing you call out as well in the book, I thought was quite interesting to dig a little bit deeper into is that indecision causes anxiety. And with that piece, if you're
Tara Rule (10:14.103)
Thank you.
Tara Rule (10:23.703)
Hmm.
Paul M. Caffrey (10:27.79)
trying to help somebody make a decision and they're maybe in a bit of indecision, let's say about picking your solution or picking from all the multiple other vendors out there. What are ways that you can go to about that to help them?
Tara Rule (10:43.447)
So I think, yeah, as you say, kind of in the book, I talk about the fact that if we don't make a decision, then our anxiety levels increase. And it's much better to make a decision, even if we end up making, you know, changing our mind later on. So it's okay to make a decision. And then later on, if you get more information to make a different decision, like we don't have to be perfect and go, right, every single decision I make in life is gonna be perfect.
But I think inviting people to, you know, if you're speaking to clients about deciding, going, helping them to see about the future. So what would you like the future to look like? If we would fast forward six months, what would you like it to look like? What would you like the, your company to be doing, the business to be doing, you to be feeling? So helping people to think about the future and going, and what decisions can you make now to help that future come true? So I think that's an element around decision -making. And I think there's also an element of going,
Helping people to understand, so what are they worried about? Because often when people don't make a decision, it means because they're worried about something. So actually going into it a little bit, going, I hear you're not quite ready to make a decision. Talk to me, what are you worried about? And actually having a really open conversation with somebody.
Paul M. Caffrey (11:57.646)
you've really hit on something there, Tyra. What are you worried about? And typically somebody is worried that the project may not work, that you may not be able to deliver, that their name will be associated with a project that is a failure and that could impact careers, for example. Particularly when you were flying through the ranks as a director or going all the way to the top.
A bad investment probably would hamper or stop that from being there. So if that is the concern, well, then you can address it. And how can you address that? Relating back to the number of successful projects that you've delivered, highlight the minimal risk that's associated with going with yourself or the risk that your project will actually deliver.
versus well, well, the risk of saying the same and things that are that come along in that one of the things that you call out, I kind of relates to this. So I guess I'll bring it in here now is he asked a question. What is the worst case scenario for your career in five years time? I thought that was a great question. I started answering it and I was going up to three, four, five different answers. And I think I still haven't gotten to my actual answer yet.
Tara Rule (13:13.719)
Hmm.
Paul M. Caffrey (13:15.982)
When you ask that question in workshops and when you help clients with this, what are the typical answers that people finally land on and arrive at?
Tara Rule (13:27.159)
So I think it goes a couple of different ways. So I think often people say to me, the worst case is feeling stuck, feeling like they're still doing the same thing that they're doing now and they haven't progressed. So that is something that I find a lot with people.
But then often what I find is the bit of catastrophizing as well. So I had one client and we had an amazing conversation and they were actually procrastinating and they realized they were procrastinating. And I said to them and that they had a belief that they had to be perfect. That was kind of, you know, we dug into the belief they have to be perfect and therefore they would procrastinate because if you have a belief that you have to be perfect, then best procrastinate and not do it, then put something out that might not be perfect.
And for her, we had the conversation and she said she wasn't speaking up in meetings because she was worried that she had to be perfect, she might be judged. So I said, okay, so what happens if you do speak up in meetings? And she went, well, I might get something wrong. Okay, so what happens if you get something wrong? Well, I might get fired. And what happens if you're fired? Well, then we're gonna lose the house and me, my partner and my daughter are gonna be out in the streets and we're gonna die.
No joke. Like that is how the conversation played out. She was three steps away from death. And she was laughing going, when I relayed it back to going, so just to be clear, you're three steps away from dying if you speak up in a meeting. She's like, my word, like of course I don't speak up in meetings because her subconscious, our subconscious are so, so strong that we catastrophize. And actually when we say things out loud,
What we do is we bring things from our subconscious into our conscious. And when we say things out loud into our conscious, we suddenly go, hang on a second. Well, that sounds a bit weird. Really? Am I not doing it because I'm scared of dying? Well, yeah, that's not actually true. So we're able to challenge it and then do something different about it as well.
Paul M. Caffrey (15:33.902)
And bringing that back into the present, if you are working on a deal with a client and we always get to this point of feeling we should ask this question, we should ask about the other stakeholders that involved, we should clarify the decision making process. And the easier thing is to not ask that question, stay silent and then, well, hope.
that you are onto something. And the reason, I guess, and I've never thought about it at a level that you thought about that last question that we don't ask is we're afraid of consequence, which is, well, we might miss our target if we have to take this deal out of the pipeline. And then we might be in trouble for management from not having enough business. And then we might end up in a position of potentially losing job and then continue on and so on and so forth. So.
Tara Rule (16:04.567)
Mm.
Paul M. Caffrey (16:29.006)
That's a big question when we look at five years time. But if you're not asking the questions to help you get deals over the line now, likely there's something similar happening which is preventing you from doing so that needn't. So I really like the way this goes in so many different directions to our for sure.
Tara Rule (16:30.871)
Hmm?
Tara Rule (16:46.079)
And I think there's also an element around, you know, and this is where we come back to the beliefs and our identity. I remember when I, because I've been out of corporate now just over a year as a CEO and founder of my own business. So I've gone from what I would say is a very kind of comfortable, safe, I'm in a corporate job. So suddenly going, hang on a second, I don't get a paycheck every month. I actually need to go out and propose to clients. So I'm now.
I'm the head of sales, the head of marketing, the head of social media, the head of finance. I'm not everything myself. And I suddenly was going, I'm selling. Okay. Interestingly though, I said, I'm not selling myself, which a lot of people do. They go, I'm selling myself. I'm like, no, I'm not selling myself. And anybody who's in sales, even if it's a product that you offer, you've built, none of us are selling ourselves. We have a product, we have our offering that we can help people with.
and it's my job to tell people about it so they can go, yes, that's gonna really help me. So if you're thinking, hey, I'm selling myself and it means that's gonna kind of, you're gonna face barriers straight away. But one of the things that I did is I looked at my prospect list and I went, I know so many people in different corporates and I know, this is my brain, I know when I reach out to them, I'm gonna be so inundated.
with work that I won't have to worry about money for years because I know it's going to be fine. And then instead of reaching out to them, I went, yeah, I'm not going to do that because I'm going to do something different and I'm going to be busy doing something different. And I realised it was because I was scared going, so what if I do reach out to everybody and what if everybody says no?
does that mean I'm a failure? Does that mean that this isn't working? Does that mean I have to go back to corporate? It's like, no. It just means that not them, not right now, and that would be okay. But it took me months, literally for months, I had on my to -do list, reach out to all these people. I had a list of people. And one day I built up the courage and I was like, right, I'm doing it. And I did the first message and then I did the second message. And I sent about 65 messages on LinkedIn to people that I knew.
Tara Rule (19:02.519)
but to prospects going, hey, and I got into the flow of it. But the only reason I could do that is because I knew if somebody said no, then that had no reflection on me. And that had, you know, that wasn't anything about kind of who I was as a person. But if you are out there selling thinking, you know, I'm the breadwinner, this is on me, you know, all the different things that go with it, it's going to be much harder. So as much as you can detach it is really, really important.
Paul M. Caffrey (19:32.494)
It's so key. And the attaching or like whether you were to sign 60 clients or you signed five clients from that, it doesn't mean you're the best salesperson in the world or you're the worst salesperson in the world. Yeah, skills, all that delivery, everything is important. But there's also the timing and the need on the other side. Or maybe the offer needs to be refined. There are so many different factors and the confidence of signing up clients making you not prospect is quite an interesting one. And I think.
The other side of that that I often see is people, they hold back from wanting to reach out to their prospects because they don't want to burn through the list. They don't want to do it too soon. And then, what if I get through everyone and everyone says no, and I have nothing to work on? And so again, it doesn't really matter. I guess it comes back to what we spoke of earlier, beliefs and whether you believe you're going to be successful or you've got doubts of whether this will be.
Tara Rule (20:20.823)
Mm.
Paul M. Caffrey (20:26.35)
they're probably it's probably holding you back from taking the action that you need to be successful. And ultimately, it's it's action is what we get rewarded for. You have a lot of simple swaps, I guess is probably the best way to phrase it in the book when it comes from a language piece. And one that I particularly like is swapping the word sorry for the word thanks.
Tara Rule (20:30.583)
complete.
Tara Rule (20:51.255)
Mm.
Paul M. Caffrey (20:51.694)
What examples come to mind that you think will be useful for people to maybe start doing straight away?
Tara Rule (20:59.031)
Yeah, I think the immediate one that comes to mind is when people are late.
So the amount of times people go, I'm sorry I'm late. And you look at the clock and you go, you're about 30 seconds late. Like that's really not a sorry. So being able to say, thank you for your patience instead of sorry I'm late. But don't get me wrong. It's not about never apologizing ever again. If you are, if you rock up to a meeting 15 minutes late, cause you got stuck in traffic, you can say sorry, but you don't have to say sorry 10 times and give all the details about why and what happened and how disastrous your morning was.
you can literally go, I'm so sorry we're late, what have I missed, should we move on type thing. So you can just kind of say it. But the amount of times when people say sorry, the being late when you go, you're not actually late. And I think in a similar sense, people do that on emails. Have a look at the last few emails you received and see how many start with the words, sorry for not replying sooner.
And unless you work somewhere where you go, hey, we have a three hour SLA and you have to be replying to emails within three hours, otherwise like heads roll. Quite often we're saying sorry for taking so long to reply when it's been, you know, even less than 24 hours. And even if it is more than 24 hours, none of us read all of our emails every single minute of every single day. So yeah, I think in those moments, again, if you feel like you need to, you can just go kind of not say sorry at all and just reply.
or if you need to go, thank you for your patience as well.
Paul M. Caffrey (22:30.126)
There's so much there which is easy for us to do, but also easy for us to ignore. And really a lot of this is down to framing. And if you frame a situation, if you frame a conversation in a more positive, assertive, confident manner,
Well, then the rest of it is going to be greeted in that vein. So I think that really is a real big takeaway here to think about. Are you, I guess, unnecessarily apologizing? And, you know, more of us do it than we should. That is for sure. What are your thoughts on? I had a conversation with a female board member recently and.
She told me of an example that she was in a meeting and the whole board was there and she was the only woman in the room. And the person who was speaking would swear occasionally. But then they were apologising to just to her for swearing because she was female and everyone else was male. And it was that person, I guess, maybe trying to be inclusive or being a bit ignorant that doing that was causing them to signal that.
Tara Rule (23:25.943)
Mm.
Paul M. Caffrey (23:42.99)
to that person that you're a bit different to everyone here, which gets back to diversity, inclusion and all that. If someone is bringing that to your attention, is there any advice you would give for female executives on how to handle those situations if they ever crop up?
Tara Rule (24:01.303)
Yeah, I think there's a couple of different things. I think the one bit that I always start, and you kind of mentioned it about your kind of that positivity, is I assume that everyone's got positive intent. And it's a really nice way to live.
to actually believe that everyone out there, we've got positive intent, rather than thinking everyone out there is to get me or to say something against me, it's going with positive intent. It's a much nicer way to approach things. And also we react differently when we go, hey, they may have done it with positive intent to go, well, you know, I don't want to offend you. So I think there's one bit about our framing to go, how do we frame it? I think there's also an extra bit to go, if we feel offended to...
step back and go, so which is the right course of action to say something? So there's nothing wrong with saying something, but going, actually, do I say something one on one? Or do I say something in a meeting in a big room of people? So something for that, for example, I would go, hey, I'm assuming positive intent. You know, they're trying to be polite. If it was something that I was like, you know, being in the room, every situation different, you go, no, no, no, I think that was that didn't feel quite right. Personally, I would go.
Okay, I'll have a one -on -one conversation, go, you know, I appreciate you apologizing just to me, but actually, you know, you don't need to treat me differently. I don't want to be called out differently, but saying it in a softer way that is one -on -one, but still assertive, rather than going in front of a big group. How dare you? But then there are other situations, and this is, I think, especially when we spot it happening with other people, for us not to be afraid to call people out and go, can we just pause a minute? Because actually, I don't think this is appropriate behavior.
And for me, that story doesn't sound like something that I would go, hey, in the room in front of everybody, but knowing that it is okay to back people. And actually it doesn't matter what gender you are or what race you are, you can call out things that you go, no, no, this isn't okay. So I think it is very different depending on which situation, but kind of if we all approach going, I assume everyone's got positive intent, it is, you know, it helps us frame things and react a little bit differently as well.
Paul M. Caffrey (26:12.91)
Yeah, and there's a lot of tools and techniques you've shared there, Tara, that can be applied and people can take away and use going to shift a little bit off topic. We were speaking beforehand in preparation and we both have girls, your minor are at the two and three year old stage. So I'm in the position of having to teach them how to interact with other people.
What are the rules for apologies and excuse me and words along those lines when we're talking to our children? What should we get them to say? What should we tell them?
Tara Rule (26:47.127)
Yeah, so I've, yeah, my girls are now 10 and 13 and one of the things that they say that I've taught them is to say thank you instead of sorry. So if I give an example, we'll take them out for dinner.
And I like to tell our kids how much money things cost because I want them to have an appreciation. We're quite fortunate that we do go out for dinner a lot. We do go on holidays a lot. But I also like to let them know how much things cost so they don't just think, you know, actually, we're just kind of throwing money around at everything. And quite often, so when I say, you know, this costs this amount, they go, sorry, I'm sorry, mom, sorry. And I'm like, no, no, no.
I don't want you to apologize. There is no need for you to apologize, but you can say thank you. So that's another switching sorry for thank you. And then they go, thank you. Like you don't need to apologize that I spent money on you, but general manners are good. So you can say thank you. So that's one thing that I do with my kids. And they definitely say that they say thank you much more than they say sorry. But I think there's also an element with the word sorry. It's quite funny. I was interviewing somebody.
about apologizing and I interviewed her for the book and she said that she says sorry so much that the words now are meaningless for her kids. So her kids say sorry but they don't actually mean it. So I think there's in the flip side, you know, when our kids do say sorry, actually to help them go, so what are you sorry for? And helping them be aware for what they're sorry for so that they can be clear on, actually it's okay to say sorry here.
But actually on these times we don't need to be saying sorry. I think there's a couple of different ways with kids.
Paul M. Caffrey (28:35.278)
Yeah. And again, there are pieces that we can, you know, we can apply and we can help frame with kids. So giving them the tools to know how to use it is super, super important. Recently, I was in New York. I was speaking with Dr. Robin Hanley -Defoe and we're having quite a good conversation. There was a few other people around the table. And one of the things that she shared is that
Hope is a strategy. This caught everybody's attention and really got debate going in the room. And I noticed that you called that out in your book as well. And it's only the second time I've ever seen this named anywhere else. Could you expand a little bit upon that and the thinking behind that? Because I think it'd be really beneficial for people to hear.
Tara Rule (29:21.687)
Hmm.
Tara Rule (29:28.343)
Yeah, so I think I talk about two different things. One is going, you know, hope is not a strategy, but at the same time, hope is really important. So if we just go, you know, hopefully this podcast will go well. It's like, well, how do we know it will go well? Actually, what are the steps that we can take for it to go well? Right, we can dial in 10 minutes before and make sure the text's all working. We can do a practice run. We can meet beforehand to make sure we've got a conversation. I can have a few things about, I think that I want to share.
So actually, rather than just kind of rocking on and go, let's hope this goes well. So I think hope is not a strategy, but at the same time, hope is really important because when we have hope for the future, we take more assertive action. And when we have hope for the future, we have more confidence in what we're doing. So I share an exercise which is thinking about a hope map.
So with a hope map, you think of what your goal is. You then think about, okay, why is it important to me? Because the more you know why something's important to you, the more likely you are to stick to it. And then you start thinking about, okay, what can I do to achieve the goal? But then we kind of go a little bit kind of against the grain and go, so what can stop you being successful? What are the things that can go in your way? Because when we think about what can stop us, we can then go, okay, how do I overcome those barriers?
And that to me is a massive thing about building hope. So it's about how do we overcome barriers? And it's about preempting barriers, because we will all have barriers. There will be blockers for all of us, all over our lives. There's nothing that's ever going to go completely smooth. And we sail through life. It doesn't necessarily always happen that way. But if we spend a bit of time thinking what could go wrong and how do we overcome them, it means that...
when things do go slightly sideways, we go, that's fine, I'll just shift, I'll adapt, I've preempted some of these. So yeah, I do think hope is really important, but hope isn't necessarily a strategy by itself. Does that make sense?
Paul M. Caffrey (31:34.446)
Absolutely. And it gives resilience and you may identify a blocker and you may not know how you're going to overcome it. But I guess that's where the hope.
not being a strategy piece starts to kick in because then it does become a strategy because you'll have that persistence to keep going, to carry on and you will then maybe see the way to get there at a later stage. I just think it's a really interesting concept to dig into when it's well.
I know it's a busy day for you. You have a lot going on. Congratulations again on the book launch. If people want to find out more about you Tara or find out where to get the book, how can they do that?
Tara Rule (32:19.991)
Yes. So firstly, the book, I don't even know if we've said the title, but the title is called Stop Apologizing. So it's Stop Apologizing, silence your inner critic, find your confidence and stop saying sorry. So that is the title of the book. You can find it on Amazon now, so you can get it on Kindle or pay back right now today. And then it'll be coming out on hardback and it'll be Waterstones online as well. But Amazon is your first place to call. Type in Tara Rule. There's only one Tara Rule as far as I know.
So type it in and you will be able to see my book straight in Amazon and but also connect with me on LinkedIn That's where I do have a lot of activities again Tara rule and on LinkedIn But I'm also on Instagram Tarro coaching and also Facebook. So whatever social media of your choice not tick tock I'm like, I'm not into tick tock dances, but other than that you can find me on there all this all the socials
Paul M. Caffrey (33:12.045)
Great, well Tara thanks so much for coming on and go get the book guys, it is a great read.
Tara Rule (33:18.263)
Thank you so much.
