Paul M. Caffrey (00:01.652)
Lo and welcome along to the Work Before the Work podcast. I am delighted to be joined by Devon Henig today. Devon has been a VP of marketing, VP of demand, a lot of experience in the trenches, but more importantly is the author of the Senior Compensation Bible. Devon, how's it going? How are you?
Devon (00:20.791)
I'm doing well, Paul. Happy to be here.
Paul M. Caffrey (00:23.292)
I am delighted that you're here and this is a quick fire episode. So we're really just looking for your best advice in a few minutes. So no pressure. That's it straight in.
Devon (00:30.327)
Snappy, snappy, like it. Let's go. And he has not warned me of these questions at all. This is like truly off the dome here.
Paul M. Caffrey (00:38.504)
It is so I'll be intrigued to see what the answers that you come up with. So what is your number one prospecting tip, Devon?
Devon (00:45.687)
Prospecting we're talking to salespeople. Okay, we got to get the the prospecting hat on I mean, I was yeah in the demand in world for a long time I feel like the most cliche thing is probably know the product know the problems know the ICP like all that Very very basic stuff your audience probably wants something more tangible I think Little tips and tricks if you're doing outbound right now, my favorite outbound subject line is
taking a punt, that one for whatever reason. And anytime I've tested this, as like the best open right there, like, taking, what's that about? Then, you know, you can frame it up as like, this is my punt kind of thing. So that's pretty good. And then what else, what else? Content is not dead. Content, everybody. I mean, like, it's almost cliche at this point to do a lot of content marketing, but sometimes what's...
Good is still good today. So I mean, like, put it out there, put everything out there.
Paul M. Caffrey (01:46.314)
Okay, so good content is still key. When it comes...
Devon (01:50.473)
I mean, look, part of what I do is like TikTok. You would not think that like executives are on TikTok watching me talk about compensation, but I can't tell you how many like public company CEOs have reached out to me based on my TikTok. So like, don't even just think about LinkedIn. Think about like every platform and where the best underpriced attention is if you're a Gary Vee fan.
Paul M. Caffrey (02:14.292)
Yeah, I do like it and it is amazing. I'm seeing some tax accountants absolutely blow up on TikTok as well. And similar to yourself, I didn't expect to be getting taxed by some TikTok, but there you go. A lot of it come on my way. So what is your number one sales tip, Devon?
Devon (02:34.007)
Sales Tip.
Nails tip.
This is maybe another, I don't know if I just watched a lot of Gary V stuff or not, but like the whole, the jab, jab, jab, right hook mentality that like the giving value, giving value, giving value before asking for something is true in marketing and sales. And I think that a lot of times if you're able to give selflessly, you can then make that ask and come in at, you know, what you're wanting.
Paul M. Caffrey (03:09.143)
Very nice. Yeah, absolutely. When it comes to getting promoted, and we'll speak a little bit more about this in due course, but what is your number one tip for somebody seeking promotion?
Devon (03:17.086)
Mm
Devon (03:22.281)
So with promotions, a lot of the time it's, are you?
are you able to drum up enough leverage to get to the point of earning that promotion? If you want to be making more money at a company, if you want to be progressing and not job hopping, which is something a lot of people do to get to the next level, you know, they go from place to place almost every year, two years or whatever, and that can certainly work. That is one thing that can absolutely progress your career along quickly. However, if...
You think a grass is not greener. If you want to be progressing at your current company, you have to be thinking about how am I delivering on the expectations that are set for me and how am I drumming up more leverage to progress upward throughout the company? And we'll dive into how we can do that in the longer episode.
Paul M. Caffrey (04:12.18)
Cool, sounds good. What is the best concert you've ever been to?
Devon (04:16.905)
Elton John. I'm like, I am a very like, kind of golden age, that kind of Elton John, Billy Joel rock kind of concert guy. So I'm gonna I'm gonna go with those guys.
Paul M. Caffrey (04:29.898)
Hey, old Sol, where did you see him?
Devon (04:34.013)
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. If anyone listening to this knows where that is, hit me up on LinkedIn, because that is impressive if you do.
Paul M. Caffrey (04:43.206)
I can't even spell that, so I'll just move swiftly on. What's the best movie you've ever seen? What's your favorite movie?
Devon (04:45.714)
Hahaha!
Devon (04:52.245)
Movie also golden age action kind of guy. So like jurassic park back to the future. Those are those are my faves
Paul M. Caffrey (04:59.856)
yes, Jurassic Park, classic. Very nice. OK. I can see you've read a lot in your book. You recommend a lot of books for executives to consume who are looking to master compensation, get ahead in their career. What what books do you recommend people read to?
improve their career, improve in sales, improve in lead generation. Basically, what do you think we should have on our bookshelves?
Devon (05:23.478)
Mm
Devon (05:30.345)
Yeah, the ones that I'm really into recently are a lot of negotiation ones. So big Ryan Sirhant fan, if you're on Netflix watching Owning Manhattan, some of those real estate shows are really good for sales tips, no matter what industry you're in. So I'm currently, I got big money energy on my desk here. Just finished selling like Sirhant, definitely recommend his stuff. mean, Hermosy's got a lot of great marketing and sales lead gen type magnet books. I mean,
grab his stuff and the workbooks, which are really good for like going through exactly what's relevant for you. The biggest Chris Voss fan in the world never split the difference. You guys have probably heard that a couple of times, but it's a good textbook to always have on hand as well.
Paul M. Caffrey (06:15.326)
Yeah, well, look, a lot of good books there. yeah, Chris Voss has come up before and is quite practical. Nice, nice. I guess the nice thing about his stuff is you can pretty much use it straight away. And that is quite useful for sure. When it comes to preparation and like doing the work. Well, what does doing the work before the work look like for you, Devon?
Devon (06:28.671)
Mm
Devon (06:38.047)
So a lot of times with compensation specifically, it's coming prepared into those conversations. It's making sure that all along the interview process, you've been positioning yourself as their top choice. You are essentially the product in this case, right? So having positioning statements for yourself, having ways to handle objections that will probably come up as you're going back and forth on different terms in your negotiation, right? So.
It's having talk tracks, it's having positionary statements, way to objection handle everything that might come your way. Because if you're negotiating right, you're going to be asking for a lot and you're not going to get everything, but you want to shoot for the moon and land among the stars, right? So that's what preparation to me looks like, knowing exactly what you can negotiate, knowing how to negotiate it and being in the right mindset to push back and be confident that you're the one that they want, the one with the leverage and the one who's going to get as much as they can.
Paul M. Caffrey (07:34.302)
I like that and everything. Thinking of yourself as a product is something people may feel a bit uncomfortable with. But again, sometimes you need to separate yourself from, I guess, the compensation you're going after in order to get there as opposed to, know, I can't ask for that. I couldn't go this way. So looking forward to getting into that conversation. What is your favorite food?
Devon (08:04.087)
I have two kids right now, so I don't eat any favorite fun foods. We're a very bland diet at the moment, even though all the parents out there are probably telling me to not subscribe to that. But I mean, I love...
Paul M. Caffrey (08:07.348)
Yeah.
Yeah, I that feeling.
Devon (08:22.955)
going out for nice meals with my wife at good wineries. We're in wine region here. So, I mean, my wife's a winemaker. We like hitting up as much as we can. And anywhere with a good kitchen at a nice winery, that's where I'm going for. Doesn't matter cuisine. I can eat anything. I've never met a cuisine I don't like. So as long as it's something nice, maybe farm to table at a nice winery, I'm down for that.
Paul M. Caffrey (08:43.454)
Nice.
Paul M. Caffrey (08:48.414)
So your wife's a winemaker? Right, so you've probably got some seller in the house.
Devon (08:50.517)
Yes, yes.
Devon (08:55.395)
A little bit, a little bit of a collection growing. I mean, it's harvest right now, so things are a bit crazy in the house. But yeah, we're looking to grow that.
Paul M. Caffrey (09:05.463)
Nice. That's pretty cool. And finally. Who's your favorite sports star? It could be growing up, could be right now.
Devon (09:16.368)
You are talking to the least athletic guest you've probably ever had on this show. But I do like watching sports documentaries because I think there's a lot to glean from just greatness and that motivational aspect to bring into your career and your professional life or whatever. I mean, I've been watching Breakpoint, I watched the Tour de France one, I watched a lot of like, you know, individual Connor McGregor and Tyler...
Tyler was, Tiger was, Jesus Christ. Anyway, so, you know, like, I'm anyone, I'm on anyone who's like in that greatness category, the Michael Jordan's, like, that's what I get inspired.
Paul M. Caffrey (09:53.714)
I that. have to clip that up. Tyler Woods. There we go. Yeah, I tell you what, I'll give them a Google. If people want to find out more about what you're doing, more about the senior compensation Bible, how can they do that, Devon?
Devon (09:57.217)
Tyler Woods, you guys watch this golfer. He's gonna be big one day.
Devon (10:10.901)
That'd be at boardroomconfidential .com. Maybe you've seen me on TikTok. So go ahead over there, follow that. Thank you very much. But where you can get everything is at boardroomconfidential .com.
Paul M. Caffrey (10:22.538)
Great. Thanks so much, Devon, and look forward to chatting to you next time.
Devon (10:25.601)
Looking forward to it, Paul. Take care.
